[DISCUSSION]Support Pledis artists by only watching Pledis artists' videos on Pledis artists' official channels

Please support After School, Orange Caramel and other Pledis artists by only watching their videos on the Pledis artist’s official channels e.g. pledisartist, pledisnuest, pledis17 etc. Do not watch their videos on 1theK (previously known as LOENENT).

Pledis is After School’s and Orange Caramel’s company not LOEN. pledisartist is After School’s and Orange Caramel’s official channel not 1theK.  LOEN is just Pledis’ distributors and 1theK is LOEN’s official Youtube channel and that’s why they have legal rights to upload Pledis artist’s music videos on 1theK. But to support After School, Orange Caramel and other Pledis artists only watch their music videos on Pledis artist's channels where it’s more supportive.

Even if both 1theK videos and pledisartist videos count towards SNS points, the more views pledisartist gets the better recognised Pledis will become and this will help Pledis grow and become more successful. The growth and success of Pledis will also help After School and their label mates grow and become more successful. Also the more views pledisartist gets the more money Pledis earns from the Youtube partner program which they can use to better promote Pledis artists.

It’s been suggested that it’s a good idea to give the view money to LOEN instead of Pledis because LOEN is more popular so they have a greater global reach which allows them to spread Kpop around the world and hence help promote After School. This suggestion fails to consider the fact that LOEN has been Pledis’ distributor for about 5 years and After School is still continuously been out rank in popularity by Kpop groups junior to After School and LOEN is a dodgy company they don't care about spreading Kpop around the world, they’re more concerned with putting money in their own pockets. LOEN was sued by Korean FTC for price rigging in 2012 and was fined the most because they were biggest players in that scandal.

It's been shown that some fans still hold negative sentiments towards Pledis for Bekah and Kahi's graduation so they are protesting against Pledis. I don't see how this protesting is helping After School, Kahi or any of the other Pledis artists. Pledis is their company, if you want to support After School and/or their label mates SUPPORT PLEDIS!!!! Throughout these year I haven't seen a single concrete piece of evidence to prove that Pledis forced for Bekah and Kahi's to graduate however I do have plenty of concrete evidence to prove that Pledis has treated their artists very well before and after graduation.

It's pointless trying to increase the views of Pledis artist MVs on 1theK. If 1theK viewers/subscribers are interested about Pledis artists they'll watch their videos no matter how much views the videos have. It's not practical(i.e. take too long) trying to increase the views to an amount where 1theK viewers will watch a video just because they are impressed by the amount of views it has. Viewing Pledis artist MVs on their official channels is more supportive to them.

Not only is it pointless to try to increase the views of Pledis artist MVs on 1theK. Doing so also is damaging, fans get confused or don’t know which is Pledis artists’ company and the more views you give to 1theK videos the more you cast their counter-part videos on Pledis artist’s channel to the shadows of Youtube. Fans have blamed Pledis for their video not showing up in Youtube searches because they did a crappy job naming their videos. While this is true in the distance past, ever since Pledis started adding English to their video titles this is no longer true. The main reason why fans can’t find the newer Pledis videos and instead the 1theK videos gets listed first is because the 1theK videos are views more frequently not because Pledis messed up with naming the video.

After the Catallena teaser was uploaded on pledisartist within the first hour the video was listed first in the Youtube search results when you search for “Orange Caramel Catallena teaser”, it was listed 5th in the Youtube search results when you search for “Orange Caramel Catallena” and I’m not sure what the exact listing position was but when you search for “Catallena” the teaser still appear on the first page of the search results and the OC Catallena teaser from 1theK didn’t appear on the first page of the search results at all during any of those searches. But a couple of hours lately when I came back on Youtube to do those searches again the teaser on pledisartist channel disappeared from the first page of the Youtube search results and was replaced by the teaser from 1theK. So as usual because 1theK has more viewers, their teaser soon became more frequently view which is why Pledis’ teaser didn’t get listed. However while writing this I realised that Pledis had delete and re-uploaded their Catallena teaser on pledisartist. This bad habit of Pledis’ now presented an opportunity for the pledisartist teaser to regain its position in the Youtube search results again. The name of the music video isn’t the only thing that determines the position of a video’s listing on the Youtube search results(note that the name of the original and re-uploaded videos were the same), the frequency of the views also has a significant influence on the position in the result listings too. Not long after Pledis re-uploaded the teaser I’ve been continuously searching and loading the pledisartist teaser to help maintain/improve its position in the search results. Right now(it’s been over 5 hours since Pledis re-uploaded the teaser) when you search “orange caramel catallena teaser” the pledisartist teaser is placed first in the results, when you search for “orange caramel catallena” the pledisartist teaser is placed 2nd in the search results and when you search for “catallena” it is placed 3rd in the results and the teaser from 1theK isn’t listed anywhere on the first page of the search results. So as you can see from the events of today the frequency of views has a significant influence on how easy it is to search for the video.

Btw, when I mention Youtube search result positions, those positions do not take into account the Youtube add videos that usually get placed first.

It's great that 1theK is uploading Pledis artists MVs since they're much better recognized than Pledis, 1theK can better attract new fans but when people become fans they need to know that they should view Pledis artist’s videos on Pledis channels because that's where the view are worth the most support.

If you want to help After School and other Pledis artists grow and become more successful, help Pledis grow and become more successful. Giving your views to 1theK while you could be giving it to Pledis is doing more harm than good. There are no advantages to giving your views to 1theK while you could be giving it to Pledis.

Yes Mr Adam, I do agree with most if not all of what you mentioned, definitely so for the supporting Pledis VS Loen part.

Anyway I just wanted to say that you seem to know alot of things that I always wanted to know or at least felt that it would be good to know. I think I'l PM you soon to ask you about them. Wait for it! = b

It has been suggested that this campaign against fans viewing Pledis videos on 1theK, suits selfish fans who would only care about the group they support and not really about Kpop as a whole. I want to talk about this here as I think other members might share the same thought.

Firstly, is it selfish to only care about After School and not the rest of Kpop if you have no interest in the rest of Kpop? What about is it selfish to only care about Kpop and not Jpop because you have no interest in the rest of the globel music industries. What about Mandopop, Cantopop and why stop and at music, what about ending world hunger and global warming? I'll put it more simply. Is it selfish to only care about something you are interested in and at the same time not really care about something else you have no interest in? This is a very interesting philosophical question but it's too broad and doesn't directly related to the topic so I'll get back to the topic now.

It is not selfish to only care about After School and not really care about the whole of Kpop. After School is in danger of being left behind in the shadows of Kpop and Kpop is doing just fine. Why should I have any concerns for the whole of Kpop while Kpop is getting more and more popular each year and After School is continuously being out ranked in popularity by groups junior to After School each year. If you think giving your views to LOEN is going to help After School become more successful then consider now many groups junior to After School has became more successful than After School throughout these years. If you're really concerned about Kpop then go donate your views to SM and their artists. If you want After School to be more successful then give your views to Pledis to help them become better recognised so they can grow. If you want Pledis to come out with more projects like the Happy Pledis albums then provided them with more financial support(ensuring they get more view money helps).

I think that is a lack of information what is causing PLEDIS ARTISTS' fans to think that by watching MV's on LOENENT everything will be OK.
I've tried many times to explain that if we increase the views in PLEDIS then PLEDIS becames more popular and hence will have more $ to promote their artist
But probably instead of trying to get new people to join the fandom we have to make the people that already call themselves PLAYGIRLZ/CUPIDS/LOVES/SPARKLESS/CANDIES/DBLV to help with this

Well, your logic on why it is not selfish is not correct. Comparing "AS to whole of Kpop" with Kpop and Jpop and the rest is different because, Kpop and Jpop are mutually exclusive, and so too are the other examples you had, whereas AS is a subset, or a part of the whole Kpop industry. Its like someone who wants to drink milk is only interested about the udders and not the cow VS someone who is interested in a cow is not interested in a bull for example. If the cow dies, the udder will not have milk. But if a bull dies, the cow can still be alive.

So what we need to note from this is that Kpop (aka the cow here) WILL NOT die no matter what. So I feel that it is okay for people to just be interested in their individual favourite groups (aka the udder here. Lolx. Okay it's a little weird but the 'selfish' notion is derived here) and thinking that spreading Kpop around the world would help promote them is a definite wrong idea to have. At least that's how I feel.

In another way to put it. In percentages for example, if the whole Kpop industry is a 100%. I believe that fans of SNSD consist of let's say 20% whereas fans of AS consist of 2%. This means that by spreading Kpop around the world, after 50 more people get into Kpop, only 1 new fan of After School will be born. However, what we should focus on is to improve that 2% to let's say 3%. With a 1% increase, that is like 10 new fans are born IF we assume that the Kpop industry consists of 1000 fans, but I'm sure the number should be in the millions. So I feel that watching videos from Pledis channels is increasing that % whereas watching on Loen is increasing the whole number of Kpop fans.

I'm just explaining the technical details of my own understanding anyway. Not saying I feel strongly about anything in particular. = b

junghi4ever wrote:I think that is a lack of information what is causing PLEDIS ARTISTS' fans to think that by watching MV's on LOENENT everything will be OK.
I've tried many times to explain that if we increase the views in PLEDIS then PLEDIS becames more popular and hence will have more $ to promote their artist
But probably instead of trying to get new people to join the fandom we have to make the people that already call themselves PLAYGIRLZ/CUPIDS/LOVES/SPARKLESS/CANDIES/DBLV to help with this

@junghi4ever there are some fans that I know who have seen season and is supporting this. Some fans are lacking information and some fans are still blaming Pledis for lots of things so are still refusing to support them. I'm hoping that during this discussion fans will bring out whatever issues they have with this campaign so we can discuss it.

Mbi wrote:Well, your logic on why it is not selfish is not correct. Comparing "AS to whole of Kpop" with Kpop and Jpop and the rest is different because, Kpop and Jpop are mutually exclusive, and so too are the other examples you had, whereas AS is a subset, or a part of the whole Kpop industry.

@Mbi, Kpop and Jpop are not mutually exclusive. A lot Kpop artist e.g. After School are also Jpop artists. Both Jpop and Kpop are subsets of global music industry.

Mbi wrote:So I feel that watching videos from Pledis channels is increasing that % whereas watching on Loen is increasing the whole number of Kpop fans.

@Mbi, by watching on LOEN people might be helping to increase Kpop fans but they are not necessarily helping increase After School fans. By watching on Pledis they have more of a chance to increase After School fans. For example I've seen every comment on the First Love MV on pledisartist and until recently I've seen every comment on the First Love MV on LOEN. There were a lot more people announcing themselves as new fans on the MV on pledisartist than the one on LOEN. Because the First Love on Pledis has more views than LOEN it does help After School gain more fans and Pledis become better recognised. This idea of trying to increase After School fans by trying to increase Kpop fans makes no sense while you can just directly try to increase After School fans. Instead of trying to promote LOEN to the world fans should be trying to promote Pledis to the world. It'll be good if we can help Pledis reach the level of the big 3(i.e. SM, JYP and YG) so that Pledis' success can help After School and their label mates grow.

Shucks.. I had to learn how to quote stuff coz of you. Hahaha..

PlayboyzAdam wrote: @Mbi, by watching on LOEN people might be helping to increase Kpop fans but they are not necessarily helping increase After School fans.

I think you don't understand what I'm saying.. lolx.. Why do you say it like I don't mean exactly what you have just said? Because that's exactly what I meant. And I gave it a generous estimate by saying that the increase in Kpop fans would yield 2% increase in number of AS fans (which I believe is a really generous estimate because reality ain't too kind). Perhaps I should have ended that paragraph by saying that watching on Pledis channels is more helpful than watching on Loen instead of how I put it so that it is clearer.

PlayboyzAdam wrote:Kpop and Jpop are not mutually exclusive. A lot Kpop artist e.g. After School are also Jpop artists. Both Jpop and Kpop are subsets of global music industry.

Saying that both Jpop and Kpop being subsets of global music industry is like saying that everything in this world is connected. We can just look at the micro view here and deal with what we have on hand. And so I took another look at the question. I realized that the question was actually whether it was selfish. Lolx. I can see that you detest that word so much that you had to draw a line to separate yourself from it. Basically I use adjectives loosely and usually I use them for a particular effect, which is often humour. So perhaps I have a strange sense of humour that has shocked you when you saw the word come out in my PM. Haha.

But anyway, for the others who may be wondering where the selfish came from, I just used it as a means to define people who disagree with the 'righteous' people who think that spreading Kpop in general should be the 'Correct' way to support AS (or whatever group they support). Or maybe I've mistaken about this and that you were talking about people who think it is the 'best' or 'fastest' way to support AS and make AS more popular and not talking about people who think that it is 'correct'. I used righteous here because it seems like the right way to do things seeing how if Kpop dies, AS goes with it. (Omit any ideas of Jpop here first. I try to simplify things when I'm explaining an idea.) (Again 'correct' is based on my own moral judgements as is selfish so the use of selfish may not suit your tastes as well. Over here 'selfish' is seen from the eyes of those 'others' actually. Not from my point of view or your point of view.)

So after I reviewed exactly what the initial question was, I realized that the question is actually not really relevant to talk about because we will just get carried away so I decided to leave it as is. What I really want to say is, you really sound like I think watching on Loen is better when I actually DON'T think that way. So just wanted to point out here in my first point.

Mbi wrote:Shucks.. I had to learn how to quote stuff coz of you. Hahaha..

Hmm.... you're welcome  

Mbi wrote:I think you don't understand what I'm saying.. lolx.. Why do you say it like I don't mean exactly what you have just said?

LOL, I think I was confused or maybe because I didn't read it properly.

Mbi wrote:I realized that the question was actually whether it was selfish. Lolx. I can see that you detest that word so much that you had to draw a line to separate yourself from it.

It wasn't that I detest 'selfish' it was because I don't agree fans are selfish for only supporting the group they care for and not really Kpop as a whole.

Mbi wrote:
Basically I use adjectives loosely and usually I use them for a particular effect, which is often humour. So perhaps I have a strange sense of humour that has shocked you when you saw the word come out in my PM. Haha.

But anyway, for the others who may be wondering where the selfish came from, I just used it as a means to define people who disagree with the 'righteous' people who think that spreading Kpop in general should be the 'Correct' way to support AS (or whatever group they support).

haha, OK I see you were being sarcastic when you said selfish  

Mbi wrote:What I really want to say is, you really sound like I think watching on Loen is better when I actually DON'T think that way.

LOL, you got me worried for a moment. I got confused by your PM.

I think that a lot of people gets confused by the fact that the views on both channels (LOEN and PLEDISARTIST) count the same for SNS.
However I think thay if PLEDIS ARTISTS' fans do their part in promoting PLEDISARTIST then PLEDIS will become more popular and when you search the song in youtube, the first song that will appear will be the one that is on PLEDISARTIST channel.
Also since both views count in sns score then as fans we can increase the views only on pledisartist, and let the people that only are curious of the song to watch it on LOEN no?
I’ve always said this: "A group is strong not by the quantity of their fan base but by the strong will of their fandom"

BTW: I'm sorry If i have grammar errors, English is not my first language so feel free to correct me

junghi4ever wrote:However I think thay if PLEDIS ARTISTS' fans do their part in promoting PLEDISARTIST then PLEDIS will become more popular and when you search the song in youtube, the first song that will appear will be the one that is on PLEDISARTIST channel.

Did you know that if you search on Youtube for "catallena", "orange caramel catallena", "orange caramel catallena teaser" the Catallena teaser from pledisartist shows up first in the Youtube search results now? Also when search for "Orange Caramel" the teaser on Pledis appears second on the search results. If fans don't understand the importance of this, basically the higher the position of the video on the search results the better the video is advertise and for Pledis this means that Pledis gets better promoted along with Orange Caramel. Companies e.g. Vevo pays Youtube to list their video above all others videos as ads like what crayonpopVEVO did with the Bar Bar Bar MV during its promotion. Fans that are actively trying to increase the position of the Pledis Catallena teaser on Youtube search results is doing a fantastic job   

junghi4ever wrote:Also since both views count in sns score then as fans we can increase the views only on pledisartist, and let the people that only are curious of the song to watch it on LOEN no?

I prefer both fans and non fans watch on pledisartist but only fans have a responsibility for the well being of After School so I'm only appealing to fans to watch on pledisartist.

junghi4ever wrote:A group is strong not by the quantity of their fan base but by the strong will of their fandom

I think that quote should be selected as a comment of the week   

Also here is junghi4ever's tumblr supporting Pledis. Any fans supporting this campaign should check it out as well. If there are any more people/sites e.g. facebook, tumblr etc supporting Pledis please feel free to tell us about it here.

When you search on Youtube for "orange caramel", "catallena", "catallena MV", "orange caramel catallena", "orange caramel catallena mv", "orange caramel catallena music video" the Orange Caramel Catallena MV from pledisartist appears in first position(disregarding Youtube ad videos) on the Youtube search results  

  Wow, I'm very impressed by what fans have achieved.

This time round, OC's comeback Catellena is very special I think because of the project of 1 million views in 2 days by AS Peru and Phillipines (I think.. Hope I didn't get the countries wrong). Another point may go to the fact that Pledis did not make any typo errors and stuff this time (I'm not sure but I heard that they often make mistakes) so they did not need to reupload the video or something.

I know of many people who are chain playing a playlist to boost the number of views though I'm not sure if that helps. But what I do is always go to youtube and search Catallena to find the video. There was only one time where not only was the one uploaded by pledisartist not the first position, it totally did not appear on the list. I had to search Catallena pledisartist to find it. But subsequently, pledisartist's one has been top. So yeah.. I would think that project is helping alot on this.

Mbi wrote:This time round, OC's comeback Catellena is very special I think because of the project of 1 million views in 2 days by AS Peru and Phillipines (I think.. Hope I didn't get the countries wrong).

Regardless of whether there was a formal project to view Catallena in 2 days or not, fans would still of have tried to increase the views as much as they can to try to help Orange Caramel win awards as they have done in the past. A project to gain 1 million views for Catallena in 2 days isn't what's needed. What's needed is a project to make sure there are more views on the pledisartist Catallena video. When the pledis video has sufficiently more views than the 1theK one, it will remain in the lead without fans deliberately viewing it like crazy. What's special about the First Love MV on pledisartist is that it was the first Pledis video to maintain more views than its 1theK counter part. I'll like to see the same happen for Catallena, all future and past pledis videos as well. Also what I'll like to see is for all pledis videos to be listed first in the Youtube search results for most of the Youtube searches. Right now Catallena is the first Pledis video achieving this. If the pledis Catallena does remain in first place in Youtube searches this to me will be what makes Catallena so special. It hasn't been an easy fight, there's been many occasions today where the Catallena from 1theK has made it first in the Youtube search results but right now the only search I know where the 1theK video appears first is when you search for "Catallena MV".

Mbi wrote:Another point may go to the fact that Pledis did not make any typo errors and stuff this time (I'm not sure but I heard that they often make mistakes) so they did not need to reupload the video or something.

In the past Pledis use to delete and re-uploaded videos annoying a lot of fans in the process. With the exception of the Catallena MV teaser they haven't done it for a couple of years. So I wouldn't say they often make mistakes then delete and re-upload videos. I'm hoping by now Pledis has seen the many comments by fans telling them to stop re-uploading their videos unless there's something wrong with the actual video itself. Typo mistakes in descriptions and the title can be edited without re-uploading the video, seriously hoping Pledis knows this after so many years.

Mbi wrote:I know of many people who are chain playing a playlist to boost the number of views though I'm not sure if that helps. But what I do is always go to youtube and search Catallena to find the video. There was only one time where not only was the one uploaded by pledisartist not the first position, it totally did not appear on the list. I had to search Catallena pledisartist to find it. But subsequently, pledisartist's one has been top. So yeah.. I would think that project is helping alot on this.

I'm not sure what actually helps and what doesn't so I'm doing Youtube search when I can and when I'm away from the computer I use a playlist. There wasn't much detail about the "1 million views for Catallena in 2 days" project in the post ASDaze made, does the project tell fans where to watch the video?

PLAYGIRLZ Y PLABOYZ DEL MUNDO // PLAYGIRLZ AND PLABOYZ AROUND THE WORLD






Credit: Sissi Targaryen @ PlayGirlz&Boyz House

YAY!!!!! Catallena MV on pledisartist got 1,004,585 views

Catallena MV on pledisartist has 1,160,609 views
Catallena MV on 1theK has 1,159,653 views
Yay, the pledisartist MV is regaining the lead again   

Fans have this idea that increasing the views for videos on 1theK is going to make Pledis artists more popular and help Pledis artists win awards....hmm NO, please just read the first post in this thread or consider this, when NU'EST promoted "Sleep Talking" last year they had over 20 million views on 1thek for their Face MV and even with those 20 million views did "Sleep Talking" win any awards?

What are you guys planning to do, try to increase the old After School MV on 1theK to 30 million view and see if they will win some awards for their next comeback? 40 million views perhaps? What the hell are you guys thinking?  Increasing Pledis artist MV views on 1theK isn't going to help them win any awards.

A lot of Playgirlz/Playboyz and other Kpop fans don't understand the situation and are misinforming other Playgirlz/Playboyz. I was planning to respond to every comment I find but I don't have time for that any more but I will response to the following one because it did get a lot of thumb ups in the Catallena MV on 1theK.

Osaka Sica(Youtube) wrote:
Don't people realise that LOEN Entertainment distribute all of Pledis' artists and so do KT Entertainment... because Pledis aren't the most established music company in Korea LOEN offer to distribute their artists and pay them a percent of what the artists videos earn... so whichever way you look at this Pledis and Orange Caramel still make money and fame... I wish some people would do a little research before they say the first thing that pops into their head?

@Osaka Sica, what fans aren't realising is that even if Pledis and Orange Caramel are still making money and fame, they're not making as much money or fame from fans viewing Pledis videos on 1theK compared to viewing it on Pledis channels. Keeping more views on Pledis channel means that Pledis gets MORE money and MORE recognition. Is this concept of "MORE" really that hard for fans to grasp. I've already explained this in the first post in this thread. Look at the following quote from Abing Abing MV on Youtube,

Michael Xie(Youtube) wrote:is OC part of 1thek or pledis??

Throughout the years there's been plenty of comments like  Michael's so I know for a fact that Pledis isn't getting as much recognition and you can also tell base on the total views on pledisartist channel.

Unlike what some people think, Pledis is a very small company with very limited resources. If you've seen the first episode of Room Mate you'll know that After School's dorm doesn't even have furniture for sitting on. Viewing Pledis artist videos on 1theK is just damaging Pledis artist's success. If you want to help After School, Orange Caramel and other Pledis artist's become more successful then ONLY view Pledis artist videos on Pledis artist channels. Help Pledis gain more recognition and more financial resources.

Former Loen Entertainment Executives Charged With Stealing $15 Million USD In Copyright Fees

They scammed artists out of millions of dollars.

The Seoul Eastern District Prosecutor’s Office has indicted former LOEN Entertainment CEO “Shin” (56), former LOEN Entertainment vice-president “Lee” (54), and former Director of Headquarters “Kim” (48) on charges of violating the special criminal laws on economic crimes and fraud.

Prosecution discovered that between January and December 2009, the three executives are suspected of creating a virtual record label called LS Music, and paid themselves ₩4.1 billion KRW ($3,419,666 USD) by manipulating the usage records of members, making it look like users had downloaded music from their label. Songs were manipulated to show that they were released through LS Music, so the company would receive money for downloads and streams.

They are also suspected of stealing ₩14.1 billion KRW ($11,760,316 USD) between April 2010 and April 2013 by using accounts that have paid for the service, but weren’t actively being used, and taking all of the money for themselves, instead of distributing it to copyright holders of songs.

According to prosecution, the executives did not inform the other parties involved of the changes in contract terms, which is why they are being charged with fraud. Also, in order to hide the fact that they manipulated and cheated, they deleted data to make sure they couldn’t be traced completely.

A representative from Melon has stated that the three executives involved currently have no position in the company today.

   Former Director of Headquarters “Kim” was removed from the company in June 2019, and former CEO “Shin” and former  vice-president “Lee” have not been involved in operations since Kakao M acquired Melon.

   The incident took place before Kakao took over Loen, but we plan to compensate the copyright holders as soon as the damages are confirmed.

   — Melon

Source: koreaboo