[DISCUSSION] What do you think of AS being called a flop?

I always read comments from Fans and non-fans that "AS last comeback was a flop" I won't put my opinion because i don't want to influence anyone's opinion. In your opinion do you think AS is a flop? do you think first love or flashback was a flop? if yes, Why do you think that? if no, Why do you think that? If you agree or disagree with anyone's opinion in a respectful manner can you tell you any do you agree or disagree with them?

Overall I don't think First Love is a flop and I think First Love is far from being a flop. It all depends on what you consider is more important. If you think that achieving music show awards is the most important criteria and considering they didn't win any music show awards then yeah it is a flop.

However I don't think music show awards are that important. Those music show awards do not necessarily reflect the talent and hard work that went into the comebacks. Those music show awards are all about popularity and the main reason why I'm trying to help After School get them it to try and help encourage them.

There's lots of things After School has achieved with First Love that makes it far from being a flop:

1) While After School isn't the first Kpop artist to feature pole dancing in their MV. After School is the first Kpop group to fully incorporate pole dancing in both their MV and live performances.
2) After School set out to break the stereotypical association of pole dancing with strippers and they've achieve that to some extent. There were some people that saw how artistic and elegant the MV was but unfortunately there were still plenty of people that thought the MV was slutty.
3) While every Kpop group does work very hard for their comebacks, After School has clearly separated themselves on a totally different level from the rest of Kpop. Their injuries and bruises demonstrates the hard work and commitment they are willing put forth to create new and innovative performances.
4) First Love adds to the repertoire of innovative and challenging performances that After School is uniquely known for. In my opinion, the fact that After School is able to learn pole dancing to the level they have achieved is a feat far from making this comeback a flop.
5) I've seen a lot of comments for the First Love MV on Youtube where people have announced themselves as new fans so I know that After School has gained a lot of new fans from their First Love promotions.

I don't think Flash Back was a flop either but I don't think it achieve much as well. What I consider a flop is Kahi's "It's ME!" comeback. I really like their Flask Back choreography especially the move where they squat down then while coming back up they do a body wave at the same time.

As for After School being called a flop, again it depends on how you look at it. In terms of popularity and success then yes I think After School is a flop. That's pretty hard to deny when you consider that a lot of Kpop groups junior to After School are a lot more successful than After School in terms of gaining both awards and popularity.

But if you look at what After School has achieved throughout the years then they are anything but flops. After School are well known for their dancing prowess and has never lost in any of their dance battles. After School is well known for their stage performances and bringing innovative/challenging concepts to Kpop. After School has talented rappers, singers, dancers, lyricists, composers and instrumentalists. The reason why I can confidently out argue my opponents in those stupid fan wars/debates about who are better vocalists, dancers and are more talented on Youtube is because....

I do agree that flop or not ultimately depends on what you perceive as most important for an idol group to attain.. but the fact that First Love did not win any awards on those music shows is a definite reflection of something..

I mean, I'm assuming that the person in charge of the company is always looking for profits so winning awards should be one of the top priorities when they look at the concept of their comeback performances. So perhaps they were hoping that such an impressive and hardworking group would garner the appreciation of the audiences?

Essentially, when I first learnt that they were using pole dancing as their comeback concept, I already knew that it was going to be tough. Simply because in this industry especially, hard work never equates to success. It was probably really very impressive that they did it in their live performances and not just in their MV.. But then, it would only incur an applause and not earn the coins that the people in charge are most concerned about.

And then after their promotions, they adopted to performing First Love without the poles.. I tend to wonder if its because its too troublesome.. Or is it too risky in terms of injuries.. Either way, I tend to think that the pole dance concept was not successful..

But to say that it is a flop, I think flop is too strong a word for anyone in this forum to accept (This is very strongly my own opinion by the way. lolx).. Because I also read recently, somewhere, when someone commented that AS is a flop (regarding Nana's case) and I was quite annoyed by it. SO I'm actually quite surprised that this topic is actually a Poll AND that someone actually said YES to it.. Haha..

Hope whatever I said is not too rubbish to accept. =)

Mbi wrote:Hope whatever I said is not too rubbish to accept. =)

Rubbish? I value everything you have said even if I don't agree with it. Comments like yours provides me with the opportunity to clear misunderstandings some fans have concerning After School. Don't be worried about whether people think what you said is rubbish. The point of these discussions is to share opinions and learn more things. Also I like big essay length comments because they take time and effort to produce so I hope you're not too shy to do more of these comments 

Mbi wrote:I mean, I'm assuming that the person in charge of the company is always looking for profits so winning awards should be one of the top priorities when they look at the concept of their comeback performances. So perhaps they were hoping that such an impressive and hardworking group would garner the appreciation of the audiences?

Essentially, when I first learnt that they were using pole dancing as their comeback concept, I already knew that it was going to be tough. Simply because in this industry especially, hard work never equates to success. It was probably really very impressive that they did it in their live performances and not just in their MV.. But then, it would only incur an applause and not earn the coins that the people in charge are most concerned about.

I don't think that Pledis(After School's company) prioritizes profit making to the same extent as some other companies. Compare Pledis with other companies like SM and Avex. SM music videos are littered with product placements and permanent adds. Avex is even worst, not only do they have Samantha Thavasa's bags in the Lady Luck music video it's also part of the live performances. There's a lot more I want to say about Avex concerning this topic but that will turn this into a big essay about why I don't like Avex and I don't have the time for that.

Form what I've seen throughout these years, Pledis is more interested in putting on quality performances than making a profit compared to other companies. For example the graduation system, Pledis should know by now that when After School members graduate some fans are going to leave and Pledis will certainly loss money aswell but they kept the graduation system. They have Happy Pledis albums where a portion of the profits go to a charity. When you look at After School music videos there are no product placements and to my frustration in the past Pledis weren't too interest in monetizing their music videos on Youtube. It's only been recently that Pledis has been consistently monetizing their music videos and even more recently for their music video teasers. Also Pledis haven't even gone back to monetize some of their old videos yet. Other companies have been monetizing their music videos and music video teaser years ahead of Pledis.

So as you can see Pledis isn't always looking for profits and Pledis certainly doesn't look like they are interesting in winning awards as well. For First Love Pledis had After School go up against Sistar and now they're going to have Orange Caramel go up against SNSD. I'm going to support Pledis on this. While I really want to help After School win those music show awards to show how much I appreciate them, Pledis isn't doing anything wrong here.

If Pledis did deliberately pick a time for After School to comeback against less popular opponents and After School does win awards then I'll be very happy for After School but because Pledis did time After School's comeback just to win awards, this will reflect how  desperate Pledis and After School is. Those music show awards are more meaningful if they are won fair and square only with hard work from After School and fans voting.

Mbi wrote:And then after their promotions, they adopted to performing First Love without the poles.. I tend to wonder if its because its too troublesome.. Or is it too risky in terms of injuries.. Either way, I tend to think that the pole dance concept was not successful..

After School has already stated that they use the choreography without the poles when it was too troublesome to perform the choreography with the poles because moving the poles around is difficult as they are big and heavy.

Mbi wrote:someone commented that AS is a flop (regarding Nana's case) and I was quite annoyed by it

Can you elaborate more on this please, I want to know more about it.

I'm afraid I cannot elaborate on that last thing because it was really on some random article that I read (Which I don't even remember exactly what it was about. I just know Nana was in the article). Only thing I can say is that it was just some guy who 'likes' Nana who commented so its no big deal. That was the first time I saw someone say that so I got reminded when I saw the word 'flop' again. Perhaps I should not have mentioned that.

I'm not entirely convinced if anyone who owns a company doesn't want to go for profits but I'm more cynical by nature and I never really looked into how they did things so I'l just assume that you're right about it then. Plus I don't understand how monetizing stuff works online. Haha..

Regarding competing opponents.. I didn't know that people actually 'pick' their comeback opponents and choose when to or not to comeback. But if they do then Ok.. I'm not exactly sure whether I should be happy that they chose to comeback with Sistar but from a personal standpoint, I am biased against Sistar so I don't like losing to them. Haha..

But anyway, I sometimes feel that the music shows are biased against us as well. Or at least I always feel that way, especially that one time when Orange Caramel was second to Gdragon for 2 weeks and then when he was out of the race, in OC's final week, we still got second to Gain, who just came out of nowhere and for only that one week. I also remember how that year's year end episode recollected that part of the year as comebacks for solo artists as all the winners were soloists. Conspiracy theory perhaps..

Just a short note about Happy Pledis though. I actually love that idea very much but why was it absent last year? I never really found out why.

I'm actually quite happy with how After School is right now though. I don't need them to win awards or anything. Or maybe I'm just a weird fan.

Last thing about the poles, well, to me, if they really stopped with the poles solely because it was too cumbersome to transport, then I really think that concept isn't really successful.. I mean.. I understand if its for those overseas promotions (I saw some China promos) or other smaller events. But perhaps they could have done it again for the year end Gayo Daejuns? Or perhaps it was not worth the effort for a truncated 3 minutes performance.

Anyway I probably did not mean 'rubbish' in the way of 'totally without nutrition' but moreso of whether it stays on topic or not. However, I do appreciate your kind gesture to reassure me that you would appreciate it all the same.

Mbi wrote:I'm not entirely convinced if anyone who owns a company doesn't want to go for profits but I'm more cynical by nature and I never really looked into how they did things so I'l just assume that you're right about it then. Plus I don't understand how monetizing stuff works online. Haha..

I'm not saying Pledis doesn't want to go for profits. In order for any business to remain operational. Profits are required. I was trying to point out that Pledis doesn't seem to be as money minded as other companies. On Youtube if you monetize your videos you get paid every time someone watches the adds on your video. That's basically it.

Mbi wrote:
Regarding competing opponents.. I didn't know that people actually 'pick' their comeback opponents and choose when to or not to comeback. But if they do then Ok.. I'm not exactly sure whether I should be happy that they chose to comeback with Sistar but from a personal standpoint, I am biased against Sistar so I don't like losing to them. Haha..

I'm not sure if companies actually do pick a time for their artist's comeback just so they can win awards but it is possible to do it. I don't know if Pledis deliberately picked to have After School's comeback go against Sistar's. I think Pledis doesn't care who After School will go against in their comebacks. What I was trying to say before was that I don't think Pledis is interested in deliberately winning awards by choosing to have After School go up against easier opponents.

Mbi wrote:Just a short note about Happy Pledis though. I actually love that idea very much but why was it absent last year? I never really found out why.

I'm not sure why Happy Pledis was absent last year aswell. Maybe Pledis wasn't doing as well as they like financially last year so they couldn't afford it.

Mbi wrote:I'm actually quite happy with how After School is right now though. I don't need them to win awards or anything. Or maybe I'm just a weird fan.

I don't think you're weird. It's good that you can take pride in After School without them ever winning an award. I use to not care about whether After School won any music show awards or what other people thought about After School. But after that interview in 2011 where Nana wished After School to be #1 in 2012. I felt pretty bad for only of have supported them by enjoying their music so I started voting for After School after that. I still don't need After School to win anything. I just want them to win so they know what I thought about them.

Mbi wrote:Last thing about the poles, well, to me, if they really stopped with the poles solely because it was too cumbersome to transport, then I really think that concept isn't really successful.. I mean.. I understand if its for those overseas promotions (I saw some China promos) or other smaller events. But perhaps they could have done it again for the year end Gayo Daejuns? Or perhaps it was not worth the effort for a truncated 3 minutes performance.

I think for the Gayo Daejuns they want to show off a different performance that's different from the the ones during their First Love promotions.

I mistakenly voted Yes /facepalm

Well. Here's what I think: people think of After School in a 'weird way'.
Once in a while I always see comments that go something like:

'The only thing that sets them apart from the rest is the member switch and big concepts' -There is way more to the group than flashy concepts. But because of these concepts, they can't really show their live vocal talents. (I mean, who can sing decently spinning on a pole?)

'They're lost without member (x)' - Member (x) being specifically Kahi? But the thing is, we all know that girlgrouping isn't her thing anymore. We miss her but we can't do anything about it.

'They try too hard' - this is where I go mad. Just because they don't give us sugary aegyo cavities or go for that common plain sexy concept that we're all sick of, they're tryhards. At a point, yes, it's because the group could use some extra attention, though I never saw It as a bad thing. But if doing things differently and not wanting to become just another grain in the rice bag means being called attention whores... I'd say the problem is that people aren't as open minded as they could be.


After School isn't a flop, as they was very popular some years before. Orange Caramel and Uee are also slowly bumping them in, but it's true that we are not such a big fandom and that the group isn't known throughout the whole country of South Korea. What also doesn't help is the debut of different groups from bigger companies. Lets face it - if an SM group debuts tomorrow it will sell more than a Pledis group did in a year. I get the feeling that as time goes by, our girls are being buried by so many rookies, which can also make some old fans leave the fandom.

also I heard pledis has kind of a beef with kbs, being the reason why they aren't on music bank since forever. I don't know if this is true but it definitely doesn't help with their promotions. just sayin'

wowous wrote:Well. Here's what I think: people think of After School in a 'weird way'.
Once in a while I always see comments that go something like:

'The only thing that sets them apart from the rest is the member switch and big concepts' -There is way more to the group than flashy concepts. But because of these concepts, they can't really show their live vocal talents. (I mean, who can sing decently spinning on a pole?)

I see a lot of comments similar to that too. Usually by f(x) fanatics fans on an After School vs f(x) video on youtube. I use to respond by listing everything that makes After School so unique within Kpop and I can list a lot of things. My responses usually span a couple of comments(before Youtube changed so that comments can now be greater than 500 characters long). Even with everything I've listed there are still comments saying that After School is just like other groups, they're not unique. People are going to chose to see what they want to see and there's not much that can be done about that. I'm personally not that interest in live singing. I'm more interest in the actual overall performance however I do think After School are great singers and I do what them to be recognised for their singing.

I don't think they're flops but I think they are underperforming. I'm not quite sure why they are so undervalued in Korea yet are one of the most popular Kpop girl groups outside of Korea. I remember they had even outsold 2ne1 on Yes Asia and ranked 2 behind SNSD in 2011.
I am glad that After School seem to be selling really well in Japan, their lowest selling single in Japan is around the same as their highest selling single in Korea.

It's funny how always those delulu Non-After School fans saying that they are flops.
I mean, if you don't know anything about this group than just shut up be quiet and listen to your favor group.

And Nana fans should take a damn seat too!
After School is not all about Nana and looks!
Those are always the ones too, that gives a bad image to After School and their fans. I actually wouldn't consider most of them as real After School fans anyway....
Just look at other forums and comments. Making stupid threads about Nana and "who is more popular and prettier"?
Really annoying if you ask me and just poison for After School fans.

PrinceX wrote:And Nana fans should take a damn seat too!

hmm.... as a Nana fan, NO!!!!!   you're not afraid to speak your mind and I like that. It's good having you in the forum, now the forum will be more fun  

PrinceX wrote:After School is not all about Nana and looks!

True, and Nana isn't all about looks either. Let's discuss more about Nana on the Nana thread   

PrinceX wrote:Those are always the ones too, that gives a bad image to After School and their fans. I actually wouldn't consider most of them as real After School fans anyway....

hmm...I think I'm very much an After School fan. I don't think I give a bad image to After School and fans because I'm a Nana fan. I think/know many After School fans h8 me for many reasons but I don't think any of them h8 me for being a Nana fan.

PrinceX wrote:Just look at other forums and comments. Making stupid threads about Nana and "who is more popular and prettier"?

  Honestly that's a good idea, I think a thread and poll about "who is more popular and prettier?" would be interesting. But I'm not going to create one right now because I don't want you to take it personally(LOL but the time will come  ). Also I'm too busy right now to participate.

PrinceX wrote:Really annoying if you ask me and just poison for After School fans.

Really? I think we can use Nana's popularity to gain more After School fans just like how UEE's popularity has been gaining After School fans 

PlayboyzAdam wrote:
hmm.... as a Nana fan, NO!!!!!   you're not afraid to speak your mind and I like that. It's good having you in the forum, now the forum will be more fun  

Always be prepared!   

PlayboyzAdam wrote:
True, and Nana isn't all about looks either. Let's discuss more about Nana on the Nana thread   

I know that Nana isn't really all about looks. She is actually a decent singer and improved a lot i must say.
What i was trying to say is that people (non-After school fans) see her more as a bombshell with her blonde hair and model figure and not as a singer. And it reflects After School's image somehow too. That means, they just don't get the respect as a singer/dancing group as they should be.
But maybe i'm just overreacting and making too much drama about it. I don't know.  

PlayboyzAdam wrote:
hmm...I think I'm very much an After School fan. I don't think I give a bad image to After School and fans because I'm a Nana fan. I think/know many After School fans h8 me for many reasons but I don't think any of them h8 me for being a Nana fan.

Well i didn't said all, just most. But Let's say a couple of them are.   

PlayboyzAdam wrote:
  Honestly that's a good idea, I think a thread and poll about "who is more popular and prettier?" would be interesting. But I'm not going to create one right now because I don't want you to take it personally(LOL but the time will come  ). Also I'm too busy right now to participate.

i don't know. I'm personally not a fan of that because it builds just fan wars and i'm too old for this shit stuff.   

PlayboyzAdam wrote:
Really? I think we can use Nana's popularity to gain more After School fans just like how UEE's popularity has been gaining After School fans 

Maybe you right. But Uee's popularity doesn't help that much either.  

PrinceX wrote:After School is not all about Nana and looks!
Those are always the ones too, that gives a bad image to After School and their fans. I actually wouldn't consider most of them as real After School fans anyway....
Just look at other forums and comments. Making stupid threads about Nana and "who is more popular and prettier"?
Really annoying if you ask me and just poison for After School fans.

I totally agree with you on this. I talked to my friend once about this sometime ago when Nana was placed 2nd on the whatever ranking I was never really clear about (I don't even know who won first place). And I told my friend that it would just attract alot of unnecessary 'fans' who would say they are AS fans when they only know Nana.

I don't go to any other forums nor do I read any comments, but I can imagine what it would be like and I totally agree that it gives the real (or slightly more real) AS fans a bad name.

PrinceX wrote:i don't know. I'm personally not a fan of that because it builds just fan wars and i'm too old for this shit stuff. Very Happy

How old are you? lolx.. I mean I hope its not a secret. But I guess I can understand the feeling.. I took part in the hashtag event yesterday for Catellena's MV release and I'm still feeling tired out from it. lolx.

Mbi wrote:
I totally agree with you on this. I talked to my friend once about this sometime ago when Nana was placed 2nd on the whatever ranking I was never really clear about (I don't even know who won first place). And I told my friend that it would just attract alot of unnecessary 'fans' who would say they are AS fans when they only know Nana.

I don't go to any other forums nor do I read any comments, but I can imagine what it would be like and I totally agree that it gives the real (or slightly more real) AS fans a bad name.

Thank you!
Sometimes, i'm visiting websites like Onehallyu, Netizen Buzz or other forums to see what people are talking about After School in general.
And from my impression so far, it's mostly about Nana.
"How beautiful she is"...."She should work for Victoria Secret Models"..."She is just the prettiest blonde asian girl i've ever seen in my live".
She is pretty don't get me wrong but we have 7 other members too. What about them? Oh, of course...they don't know who they are right?
A bit sad actually if you ask me.

Mbi wrote:
How old are you? lolx.. I mean I hope its not a secret. But I guess I can understand the feeling.. I took part in the hashtag event yesterday for Catellena's MV release and I'm still feeling tired out from it. lolx.

I'm 21 years old. I had this experience a couple of times and i just don't wanna waste my energy to people, who have no idea about After School or about this specific topic. You always meet stupid little delusional girls, who think that they can say whatever they want...So annoying.

To prevent straying away from the topic I'm going to say this,

"Nana is one of the main reasons why After School is not a flop!" NANA FIGHTING!!!!!!!! #1 most beautiful Korean and for me #1 most beautiful in the world  

Mbi wrote:
I totally agree with you on this. I talked to my friend once about this sometime ago when Nana was placed 2nd on the whatever ranking I was never really clear about (I don't even know who won first place). And I told my friend that it would just attract alot of unnecessary 'fans' who would say they are AS fans when they only know Nana.

I don't go to any other forums nor do I read any comments, but I can imagine what it would be like and I totally agree that it gives the real (or slightly more real) AS fans a bad name.

@Mbi, Nana was ranks #2 on the TC Candler 100 most Beautiful faces of 2013 list. Marion Cotillard from France got #1. I personally don't think those fans should be considered unnecessary even if they are only fans of Nana. I believe given time when they get to know After School better they'll learn to appreciate the other members as well. When I first became an AS fan I only knew Kahi and now I know them all. Fans shouldn't be criticized for only knowing Nana, give them a chance.

PrinceX wrote:
Sometimes, i'm visiting websites like Onehallyu, Netizen Buzz or other forums to see what people are talking about After School in general.
And from my impression so far, it's mostly about Nana.

  NANA FTW!!!!!!!!!!

PrinceX wrote:"How beautiful she is"

@PrinceX, I agree Nana IS GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!

PrinceX wrote:She should work for Victoria Secret Models

@PrinceX, I also agree she has the looks and she has the body. It would be awesome if she became a Victoria Secret Model then she can bring more international attention to After School  

PrinceX wrote:She is just the prettiest blonde asian girl i've ever seen in my live

@PrinceX, TRUE... seriously have you seen an Asian blond hotter than Nana. Maybe if Kahi was blond but right now Nana #1 for me  

PrinceX wrote:She is pretty don't get me wrong but we have 7 other members too. What about them?

@PrinceX, what about the other members? Please tell me what you think about the other members at the member threads  

PrinceX wrote:Oh, of course...they don't know who they are right?
A bit sad actually if you ask me.

@PrinceX, yes it is sad that they don't know the other members but do you know what's more sadder.... more senior fan severely underestimating/not knowing After School, it's members and Pledis but given time and through these discussion I'm sure everyone will get to know After School better and learn to appreciate all AS members and Pledis (no matter how incompetent they maybe)  

PrinceX wrote:I'm 21 years old. I had this experience a couple of times and i just don't wanna waste my energy to people, who have no idea about After School or about this specific topic. You always meet stupid little delusional girls, who think that they can say whatever they want...So annoying.

@PrinceX,  it's not a waste of energy to defend what you believe in and I've met plenty of senior fans who are ignorant in certain matters pertaining to After School. Its good that we can have these discussions because we can all learn from each other.

To all Nana fans and other new fans who don't know anything/much about After School, please don't be shy. If you have questions feel free to ask. If you have an opinion feel free to express it. Don't be shy about saying something stupid, I know the feeling of being told what you think/said is wrong sucks. But I think we've all been in that situation before and I don't think it's important whether we are right or wrong. I think learning whether we are right or wrong and discerning facts from fiction is more important.