Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

[Menketi]

Thanks intrepid for giving us a heads up on how pledis is doing in views and ranking.

I want to talk about something that made me concerned about the girls.

The last photo's of the Drama awards of Lizzy are beautiful, but she is so skinny and that made me concerned about her health, I hope they eat well and don't starve themselves. She became a lot skinnier the past few years that alarmed me.

(sorry if I don't make any sense, my English is not that good >.<)

[intrepid]

Thanks intrepid for giving us a heads up on how pledis is doing in views and ranking.

I want to talk about something that made me concerned about the girls.

The last photo's of the Drama awards of Lizzy are beautiful, but she is so skinny and that made me concerned about her health, I hope they eat well and don't starve themselves. She became a lot skinnier the past few years that alarmed me.

(sorry if I don't make any sense, my English is not that good >.<)

It has been noticed by many fans just how skinny Lizzy has gotten with many sending her their concerns on Instagram, but what I don’t get is I’ve been watching her show Tasty Road and she puts away a lot of food, so much so you’d think she be twice the size she is!

But she has always been really thin and I think that’s just her body type and because of that it doesn’t take much “dieting” to make her look really thin, at least it’s isn’t as bad as when UEE lost weight when they were doing their Japan promotions, that was a more dramatic change.

[intrepid]

For the period 27/12/15 – 02/01/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ rose 13 places to #11 in the Album Chart while ’17 CARAT’ dropped 12 places to #30.
‘BOYS BE’ is also back in the World Album chart for billboard for January 16, 2016; I guess it was a popular Christmas gift maybe?

On YouTube Adore U has 6,971,617 views an increase of 153,452 views in a week+1 day or 19,181 average views a day while MANSAE now has 7,529,959 views an increase of 267,266 views in a week+1 day which averages out at 33,408 views a day while the new collaboration single Q&A has 766,435 views an increase of 65,762 views in a week+1 day or 8,220 average views a day on SEVENTEEN’s channel and on 1theK it now has 1,900,557 views an increase of 192,596 views in a week+1 day or 24,074 average views a day.

[intrepid]

A Midsummer Night’s Sweetness came in at #97 in the Download Chart with 638,950 downloads for 2015 and when added to the 2014 total of 1,537,798 makes for a grand total of 2,176,748 downloads!

In the Streaming Chart for 2015 it came in at #81 with 32,904,000 streams which added to the 2014 total of 75,015,728 makes a grand total of 107,919,728 streams.

SEVENTEEN’s album year end totals for 2015 are #15 for ‘BOY’S BE’ with 122, 784 sold placing it right between Taeyeon ‘I’ at #16 and big Bang’s ‘M’ at #14 while their album ’17 CARAT’ came in at #47 with 52,738 sold which was just ahead of iKON’s full album.

For the period 03/01/16 – 09/01/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ stayed put at #11 in the Album Chart while ’17 CARAT’ rose 3 places to #27.
‘BOYS BE’ is still hanging in on billboard’s World Album chart after dropping 4 places to #9 for the week of January 23, 2016.

On YouTube Adore U has 7,093,558 views an increase of 121,941 views in a six days or 20,323 average views a day while MANSAE now has 7,744,935 views an increase of 214,976 views in 6 days which averages out at 35,829 views a day while the new collaboration single Q&A has 810,010 views an increase of 43,575 views in 6 days or 7,262 average views a day on SEVENTEEN’s channel and on 1theK it now has 2,044,277 views an increase of 143,720 views in 6 days or 23,953 average views a day.

[PlayboyzAdam]

@intrepid thanks for the updates Are these all the pledisartist that are charting? I was curious about AS and OC.

[intrepid]

@intrepid thanks for the updates Are these all the pledisartist that are charting? I was curious about AS and OC.

Yes that's it; AS and OC haven't released anything to chart so nothing for them.

[intrepid]

For the period 10/01/16 – 16/01/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ dropped four places to #15 in the Album Chart while ’17 CARAT’ rose 2 places to #25.

‘BOYS BE’ on billboard’s World Album chart remains the same at #9 for the week of January 30, 2016.

On YouTube Adore U has 7,246,333 views an increase of 152,775 views in a week  or 21,825 average views a day while MANSAE now has now surpassed the 8 million mark with 8,006,898  views an increase of 261,963 views in a week which averages out at 37,423 views a day while the new collaboration single Q&A has 862,437 views an increase of 52,427 views in a week or 7,489 average views a day on SEVENTEEN’s channel and on 1theK it now has 2,220,921 views an increase of 176,644 views in a week or 25,234 average views a day.

[intrepid]

For the period 17/01/16 – 23/01/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ dropped fifteen places to #30 in the Album Chart while ’17 CARAT’ also dropped 15 places to #40.

On YouTube Adore U has 7,401,109 views an increase of 154,776 views in a week or 22,110 average views a day while MANSAE now has 8,267,906 views an increase of 261,008 views in a week which averages out at 37,286 views a day while the new collaboration single Q&A has 910,356 views an increase of 47,919 views in a week or 6,845 average views a day on SEVENTEEN’s channel and on 1theK it now has 2,402,542 views an increase of 181,621 views in a week or 25,945 average views a day.

On Mnets official YouTube channel of all the videos released so far for the show Produce 101 the one that has the most views is for the Pledis Trainees Bang performance, and while it is just short of a week (six days) it has 186, 106 views so far.

[intrepid]

Now I want to touch on the subject of the news Jung Ah has decided to graduate After School; while I understand that to give SEVENTEEN a good debut After School had to be put on the backburner I was certain that they would have a comeback this year, the news earlier this month that everyone but After School was coming back and that the individual members would continue “individual actives” had me worried, now I suspect the reason why no After School comeback was announced was because Jung Ah decided to call it a day.

Reading her Twitter posts and some of the others in AS has also has had me worried particularly Jung Ah’s frustration she voiced to Yoon Hyelim about wanting to sing and the general twitter post about her future "My recent worry: How to earn a living? I'm too old to only follow my dream;" After these and no solid plans for a comeback I’ve been bracing for the news of AS disbanding because if a group like KARA would call it quits then it isn’t a stretch to think AS might go the same way.

I’ve previously stated that after Jooyeon left that putting in a new member would be a sign that AS would continue and my meaning was that if they didn’t then it was a sign AS was winding down and if both Jung Ah a Uee left then that would be the end; well they didn’t add anyone and now Jung Ah’s left which just leaves Uee who I’ve also previously said is at that age where “idols” considering their future career as actors usually make the change to acting fulltime.

Pledis has stated “We are discussing a new leader and new member or furthermore about AS activities.” This is a small light of hope but I put the emphasis on “small” because as I see it if Uee isn’t the new leader and it passes over to Raina then Uee is probably leaving, and a new member being discussed “now” has a hint of desperation about it; I’ve seen the seven possible candidates on Produce 101 and only about 2-3 are ready, and to be perfectly honest Pledis probably needs the most talented of the trainees to be kept together to form the core of a new group as they aren’t more than a year away from being debut.

To go forward AS needs another great vocalist and I didn’t get that vibe from those girls yet, and that means outsourcing for someone who is good at singing and dancing and above all performance, and even if such a person existed it would take time for them to get up to speed, time AS can’t afford.
Uee has been ramping up the acting and Kaeun has been DJ-ing almost full time, with E-Young missing in action I don’t see much outside of OC in the future for our girls, I think this may be it for AS and we are all just waiting for the official announcement.

[OKDR]

I get you completely. The thing is, I see that AS is holding them back a lot, not because it's an unnecessary wheight to carry, but because the group failed to progress and get its own spot on the nowadays idol domain. Individually, they all stand a change, be it small or big, but as a group, they need to work harder and find something that puts them on the top to be noticed and, afterwards, find a way to give some continuity to it (which was what never worked on first place).

Jung Ah surely wants to sing, otherwise, last year, she wouldn't had dropped that duo with Han Dong Geun, but I get her, she hardly got opportunities while being with them, the same way Kahi didn't get enough chances to stablish a career as a soloist (her first attempt shouldn't been discontinued, but then, the budget always plays a big role in this things).

I've always said that the Japan adventure is just an excuse, like how other groups keep going back and forth. It is true that the first two years, they were completely dedicated to it, but then, it wasn't that much of it, they just couldn't ballance the schedule between individual activities, finding the right songs and wanting to always give a special type of performance (which made their trademark but also played against them).

If they want to re-vamp AS, whether they mentally prepare some of them to be exhasuted (it would only work by juggling in all their individual duties with working hard on the group, otherwise, there's no point on having members whom are popular individually out of the music group), and I don't want that. Uee still needs a drama that makes it for her and brings her into the next level (although she is recognised, her last dramas weren't that good nor had those great results), if she stays, she could benefit from it like other idols did, but that would mean a lot of hard work and sacrifice.

Then, with just Uee, OC's members, E-Young & Kaeun, the group may seem less, but I don't see it impossible to start over again. Even if they don't add members, however, it would mean to double the hard work. OC's members have already a lot of individual activities. I honestly don't see Raina wanting to carry on with AS unless it means the key for her solo career to finally take off. Realistically, is not even working properly for OC, they get the sells, but the mutizens never come, so they don't get to a next stage or a better position from where they can all try to push up their solo goals.

And, last but not least, I am not sure were the thing with Kaeun being a DJ came from. Knowing how Pledis has always taken all their ideas from Japan (or almost all of them), it wouldn't surprise me if they decided on it because they saw how it worked for Dream's member Abe Erie (E-Girls). It just came out of the blue, to suddenly promote her like a DJ when they don't even try to do something about E-Young's musical talent anymore.

Also, before finishing, what they achieved with SEVENTEEN, making a group that can operate so many factors of their music and promotions, leaves nowadays AS' in a tough spot. They don't have Kahi anymore, they do have Raina and E-Young, if they trully intended to use that card, that might work for them, but only if the results of them producing music for the group reach the audience properly.

I still believe AS should continue being the flagship of the house, but if they don't re-vamp it someway or another, I don't see the point on mantaining the group as it is.

On a side note: They said they were discussing AS' next activities (meaning as a group), however, from those discussions an agreement of disbandment could also come.

[intrepid]

I truly believe that UEE is what’s holding up a After School comeback because she joined not long after the first generation girls which means she up next for “graduation;” I’ve pretty much accepted that she and Jung Ah were probably going to leave this year but I had hope for at least one more Korean comeback before that happened.

Comebacks for After School require time and money and most agencies like Pledis borrow that money for that to happen, to get things organised Pledis needs every one of the girls "committed" for a comeback and I’m willing to guess that UEE hasn’t committed(renewed contract) to stay.

UEE’s acting career is going well, she’s one of the better idol actors out there plus she has wide public appeal, and like what happened with Son Dambi she’s probably been approached by large acting agencies who are offering better opportunities and a large signing bonus, the chances of her even staying in Pledis are small to non-existent and as I’ve said she is at that age where idol singers make the change to acting full time.

I don’t think UEE wants to leave but it’s the right thing for her career and she’ll follow everyone else that’s already left Pledis because while Pledis is great at finding talented people and making them into stars they are still too small to hang onto them after they reach that level of popularity.

The timing for all this is truly terrible because I believe that the reason why nobody was added to After School after Jooyeon left was because the girls that were next in line to join, Yoo Ara and Yoonjo have left and none of the other girls were old enough or ready yet; And since all the trainees are on Produce 101 I think that’s to give them the exposure and media play for Pledis to form a new girl group, and if one or two make it into this Produce girl group that takes them out of the equation for the rest of the year.

After School requires a broad section of girls to pull in the popularity to succeed and Uee does that for what she looks like and how she dances rather than how good she sings which is only average, despite Pledis best efforts neither E-Young nor Kaeun gained any popularity or much interest despite how talented they are which is a shame but it happens to nearly all girl groups, if UEE goes then After School just doesn’t have the numbers or popularity to continue in the new oversaturated kpop environment and that’s why I think Pledis will be forced to cut their losses and disband After School; Jung Ah was the last thread but UEE will be the final nail in the coffin.

Of course they might come back as a five member group and add someone else later but I don’t see why Pledis would waste the money when it could just make Orange Caramel more active.

[OKDR]

I don't disagree with what you said but, regarding Uee, I still have to see her in a drama that trully means her break. She is, indeed, appreciated and keeps getting roles, but she's not a big name yet. As you said, I am sure she's had offers to go to agencies that will focus better on her career and I don't see the point on her staying unless she believes she can make it happen at Pledis, but all these years, they only made it place it on the line to... a big drama, a big role, a big prize... but the "next" never happens.

The only thing that could happen, regarding the trainees, is that they had a few more in the closet, like it usually happens whenever they add a new member (is always some trainee we'd never known of, or we thought wasn't in line to join yet).

[intrepid]

I don't disagree with what you said but, regarding Uee, I still have to see her in a drama that trully means her break. She is, indeed, appreciated and keeps getting roles, but she's not a big name yet. As you said, I am sure she's had offers to go to agencies that will focus better on her career and I don't see the point on her staying unless she believes she can make it happen at Pledis, but all these years, they only made it place it on the line to... a big drama, a big role, a big prize... but the "next" never happens.

The only thing that could happen, regarding the trainees, is that they had a few more in the closet, like it usually happens whenever they add a new member (is always some trainee we'd never known of, or we thought wasn't in line to join yet).

She has awards and is popular enough to keep getting the female lead role in dramas, with the backing of a big acting label she could go farther than if she stays in Pledis with its limited contacts and promotional ability, it’s not Pledis’s fault it’s just because they are small, UEE is a rising star and I’m wondering like Son Dambi she has outgrown the help that Pledis can provide.

I also think she is grateful and loyal to Pledis but this is her future and she has to put that first which means like others before her she’ll most likely leave, and while I hope I’m wrong it seems the most logical outcome.

As to “other” trainees I somehow don’t think so, they may have one or two but I also think that all the ones that Pledis had that are ready to go are all the ones sent to Produce 101, I haven’t seen any active trainee in Pledis that isn’t already on that show and the only other ones like that American girl seem to have gone home or left Pledis.

[PlayboyzAdam]

while I understand that to give SEVENTEEN a good debut After School had to be put on the backburner

...we were told that After School didn't comeback because of lack of decent concept and financial issues...

now I suspect the reason why no After School comeback was announced was because Jung Ah decided to call it a day

yep, that could very well be the case

if a group like KARA would call it quits then it isn’t a stretch to think AS might go the same way

I think Kara called it quits because DSP is evil. I don't think those issues Kara had with DSP back in 2011 was really resolved which was evident when you consider that when Nicole left in 2013, she said she still wanted to be part of Kara but does not want to work with DSP. After School isn't going to go the same way, Pledis isn't evil(unlike what After School fans want to believe)...Pledis is incompetent...but still I wouldn't want any other company managing After School because Pledis treats After School like family. Pledis and Pledis artist say good bye to each other with words of appreciation, graduation ceremonies and fan meetings while people from other companies like DSP, SM, LOEN say good bye to each other with law suites and grudges.

...just leaves Uee who I’ve also previously said is at that age where “idols” considering their future career as actors usually make the change to acting fulltime.

That's likely to happen. We already know what UEE has said about what will happen when her greed for acting increases and even in Shaolin Clenched Fists UEE didn't introduce herself as After School's UEE which suggests that she didn't think of herself as After School.

This is a small light of hope but I put the emphasis on “small” because as I see it if Uee isn’t the new leader and it passes over to Raina then Uee is probably leaving,

Sorry to say this guys, but I say just let her leave if she wants to leave. UEE has already stated her position about how she feels about wanting to act VS wanting to be an After School members and she already shown signs of which direction she wants to go...plus if UEE ever becomes the leader then I'm pretty sure After School is screwed. UEE has serious personality issues, UEE is more equatable to Homer in the Simpsons, Homer has serious personality issues and is definitely no saint but there are lovable points about him but no one is stupid enough to choose Homer as the leader for anything for obvious reasons. This fandom has no idea how messed up After School has became since Kahi left...Pledis really should of stayed out of After School issues and let them sort things out themselves...guess it sort of did in the end...

To go forward AS needs another great vocalist and I didn’t get that vibe from those girls yet, and that means outsourcing for someone who is good at singing and dancing and above all performance, and even if such a person existed it would take time for them to get up to speed, time AS can’t afford.

Great vocals are over rated. After School didn't have great vocals back in 2009 during the original 5 member lineup and their were still awesome.

I think this may be it for AS and we are all just waiting for the official announcement.

You guys go and await for the official announcement, I'll continue to spazz over After School.

Even if they don't add members, however, it would mean to double the hard work.

I prefer then didn't add another member but I wouldn't mind if they added one of the Pledis girls(I prefer Siyeon).

I still believe AS should continue being the flagship of the house, but if they don't re-vamp it someway or another, I don't see the point on mantaining the group as it is.

I can tell you the point of maintaining the group as they are...they still slay.

I don’t think UEE wants to leave but it’s the right thing for her career and she’ll follow everyone else

hmmm...UEE said when her greed for acting increase, then she'll leave After School. If she gets sufficiently more acting jobs, she'll be more than happy to leave.

Jung Ah was the last thread but UEE will be the final nail in the coffin.

I think After School will be fine without Jung Ah and UEE IF THE FANDOM WASN'T SO MESSED UP.

[OKDR]

Adam, the AS nowadays would slay if they had the chance to do so. I was also implying the fact of them not being active, and it is also true that they need better choices for title tracks to promote. The girls said it themselves a couple of times ago, they discarded coming back because of lack of good song (and concept) to come back too. The game isn't just about being good to slay with your skills, saldy or not (I am also for songs that stay with the listener), it isn't.

by re-vamping the group, I also understand the concept meaning. They have a main concept, they should re-visit that and decide whether to go from that one or not. I am the one whom will never be against additions and graduations, but in image concept terms, then maybe they need to take a new approach to what they have now. I loved their mature concepts, but I was also a sucker for the original schoolgirl fresh, tomboyish but sexy one.

[PlayboyzAdam]

..but I was also a sucker for the original schoolgirl fresh, tomboyish but sexy one.

@OKDR, you means this one

i.e. the one that suckered me into leaving Jpop and I've never regretted it

KAHI IS SO COOL!!! I've actually seen the performance videos more than the official MV, they're so fun to watch.

Haha, am I the only one here that laughs when they start calling out to Nana and cheering for her in the Ah lyrics?...can't wait to see the Pledis Girls perform Ah on Produce 101 next week

EDIT: LOL, that Lotte live performance is so addictive I've repeated if about 6-7 times already. That power walk she does at @3:00 to 3:03...I've just got one word for that...SLAYAGE!!

[PlayboyzAdam]

A fan just PM me to ask that I elaborate on a couple of quote's from previous posts so I'm going to do it here in case anyone else has the same questions.

I think Kara called it quits because DSP is evil. I don't think those issues Kara had with DSP back in 2011 was really resolved which was evident when you consider that when Nicole left in 2013, she said she still wanted to be part of Kara but does not want to work with DSP. After School isn't going to go the same way, Pledis isn't evil(unlike what After School fans want to believe)...Pledis is incompetent...but still I wouldn't want any other company managing After School because Pledis treats After School like family. Pledis and Pledis artist say good bye to each other with words of appreciation, graduation ceremonies and fan meetings while people from other companies like DSP, SM, LOEN say good bye to each other with law suites and grudges.

When I said those companies were evil, I was making references to how greedy/corrupt they were and yes I was also making references to the slave contracts...which comes from the facts that they are greedy and corrupt. I can't get into the specific detail for each company because that will take a very long time but entertainment companies typically get sued from their artist because of unfair distribution of profits between the company and their artist, the company denying artist opportunities that are given to other artists, company forcing their artist to do things they don't want to and denying artist request/refusing negotiations...this fandom has actually accused Pledis for all those things to try and make Pledis out as evil. Pledis isn't evil, the problem is this fandom and fans claims are ridiculous and stupid (sorry guys that needs to be said). Here's are example fans claims and why they are so stupid. In the past, Pledis was criticized for over promoting Nana(strange...I didn't see you guys complain about how much UEE was being promoted?) a few years later both Raina and Lizzy had solo debuts and Nana...not yet. You'll see comments from fans saying that After School was forced to do the pole dancing but if anyone actually bothered to read the actual news articles properly, they'll see that they weren't actually forced, they just get asked if the pole dancing was cool or not and if they said yes it'll get chosen as their next concept and if they say they don't want to do it then Pledis would have just debut another group to do it. So it's a case of "Check out this pole dancing, it looks cool doesn't it? OK, since you say it's cool then it's going to be your next concept. You don't want to do it? Fine, I'll debut another group to do it" but fans will have you believe Pledis is like "You're doing pole dancing no matter what and there will be no negotiations.". Also Pledis actually lets their artist keep the profits they earn for their solo activities while other artists like T-ara have the money they make from their solo activities taken by their companies...the stupidest things coming out of the minds of this fandom is the suggestions for companies fans want After School to leave Pledis for...well at least I haven't seen any fan stupid enough to want After School to join SM. Also when I said evil I was talking about the corruption that goes on amongst companies i.e. collaborative price rigging to take out competitor, rigged music awards.

To new fans,

Careful about what you believe from the older fans. You're going to heard a lot of rubbish from the older fans about how evil Pledis is. They're not going to bother to try and look for evidence, they'll believe whatever they want and they will believe their own lies too. For example, "Boo hoo hoo, Pledis staff shouts at Seventeen for playing around", "Pledis told SEVENTEEN that if they wanted ear pieces they would have to buy it with their own money". There's a thing call evidence and it's used to determine whether something is true or not. The vast majority of this fandom doesn't care about evidence or whether something is true or not and a lot of them will just make assumptions, act like their assumptions are true and are too lazy to go and try to figure out whether their assumptions are true and then you get other fans that come by and see those assumptions that are written and blindly believe that they are true and don't bother to trying and figure out whether they are true or not...hence the mass ignorance and stupidity in this fandom.

Sorry to say this guys, but I say just let her leave if she wants to leave. UEE has already stated her position about how she feels about wanting to act VS wanting to be an After School members and she already shown signs of which direction she wants to go...plus if UEE ever becomes the leader then I'm pretty sure After School is screwed. UEE has serious personality issues, UEE is more equatable to Homer in the Simpsons, Homer has serious personality issues and is definitely no saint but there are lovable points about him but no one is stupid enough to choose Homer as the leader for anything for obvious reasons.

UEE's personality has caused problem in After School in the past and there's more to what I've publicly mentioned about UEE in this forum and privately mentioned to other fans through PM. Simply put, After School(i.e. most if not all of the other members except UEE) doesn't want UEE as the leader. Pledis however...I'll just say that UEE is in the position to persuade Pledis to take her side.

This fandom has no idea how messed up After School has became since Kahi left...Pledis really should of stayed out of After School issues and let them sort things out themselves...guess it sort of did in the end...

When I said that I was thinking of 2 main things. The first thing was about the quality of After School performances after Kahi left and Jung Ah's duty as the leader to put After School in line to ensure the high quality that After School was known for...see my comment (I'm AdamFJH) at http://asdaze.com/2014/11/sun-daze-06-what-you-know-about-us-bekah/#comments which contains the line "Jung Ah's leadership is nowhere near on Kahi's level". The second thing that was on my mind was the conflicts that result from the seniority rules that had taken place since Kahi left and I blame these conflicts on UEE(main cause), Jung Ah(failed leader) and Pledis(crappy mediator). When I said "Pledis really should of stayed out of After School issues and let them sort things out themselves" I was making reference to the time when Raina reveal that when Pledis was approached about the members discontent for the seniority rules, Pledis said they(the seniors) were there first so they get to have it their way...this really is the only thing I've ever hated Pledis for...things were fair when Kahi was around, that seniority stuff is rubbish. When I said "guess it sort of did in the end" I was referring to the fact that the matter was sorted out in the end...yeah, when the 3 unnies moved out of the dorm...although to me the actual issues really wasn't resolve, UEE thinks that she can act the way she has done base on her position and other members disagree.

[OKDR]

Yes! that was exactly what got me into them.

I will try to catch more cuts from Produce 101, I am interested to see how the trainees progress.

[PlayboyzAdam]

I will try to catch more cuts from Produce 101, I am interested to see how the trainees progress.

@OKDR, tbh I'm actually more interest in seeing Kahi but I'm also there for the Pledis girls too.

[intrepid]

Can’t sleep because my overactive mind is worrying so I need to say this…

Jung Ah was important as After School’s main vocalist and when Raina joined that was when After School truly began to shine musically; Jung Ah’s incredible vocals in the low to midrange perfectly complemented Raina’s mid to high and gave AS an all-round sound that was needed, sure when AS debut in 2009 great vocals by girl groups as PlayboyzAdam has pointed out weren’t necessary with many groups using electronic vocal tuning, but that was then and this is now, todays groups are more well-rounded vocally with more groups coming out with main vocalists who are also visuals in the group and there are more of them.

After School initial concept of School girls worked because they didn’t act cute and innocent like todays groups who use that concept, they were powerful and empowering, and then Kahi gave AS the “one concept” that has distinguished it from every other girl group at the time and since, she made AS into a performance group!

Getting hooked on Kpop wasn’t something I was expecting because while I’ve listened to music for a long time I’ve never before become obsessed with any group or individual no matter how talented they were and Kpop, a music in a language I didn’t understand was literally eye opening so I spent a long time trying to understand why, basically to figure out what happens behind the curtain that makes it work so well.

Kpop girl groups have members who are all attractive and the least attractive member is still prettier than the average girl on the street but they still contain one or two who are really above and beyond the norm for beautiful, they are also usually the members who don’t sing that well and while they all can dance there is also usually one or two who specialise in that area as well; coming from Western music I was used to people who are just good singers because that’s all they have to be to succeed, they don’t need to dance and they don’t really need to be all that good looking because in the end its just about the music. It took me almost a year for me to figure out “the business” of Kpop by observing what companies were doing and what the groups themselves were doing and by watching documentaries on Kpop, and good music wasn’t the deciding factor for success.

The Kpop business is selling the product of a group based on popularity, sure the music has to be there for them to get noticed but that’s when all the “other” factors fall into play to hook you and not let go, and the target audience are hormonal teenagers who become obsessed because they are at that age where every aspect of their lives is life or death with no middle ground, they become the advertisers target through the growing popularity of the group which is where the companies who own these groups and the artists themselves make their money.

Of course teenagers grow up and become more concerned with the real world around them and that’s when groups start to lose their popularity, it happens to everyone and every group and only the groups that can constantly reinvent themselves last the longest; as a Westerner I’m more focused on the music and while I’m not a teenager I was unprepared for the impact Kpop and its marketing would have on me, they fed my every craving in sight and sound and its led me to my doom.

So now I’m a playboyz, a name I personally despise but what are you going to do that’s the fandoms name so I go with it; I watch every video I can find and read every tweet, I’ve become obsessed and knowledgeable about AS and now I’m realising the price becoming obsessed with Kpop has made me because all the groups that I like the most are all the ones from 2009, give or take a year, and they are all falling apart before my eyes, KARA has disbanded, 4Minute contracts are due this year and the members are saying their just released albums’ performance will be the deciding factor for renewing, Secret has been missing in action for as long as AS and are also due for contract renewal with rumours of conflict amongst the members and I’m sure more bad news will come.

Being an After School fan "could" have been a happy accident for me being that After School is a group that was designed from the start to constantly renew itself by allowing members to leave and adding new members over time thus becoming the eternal girl group, it still hurts when someone goes but there is still enough of the others that a sense of continuance remains, but now that system has seemingly collapsed and I don’t see a fix in sight.

When AS began in January of 2009 it was a five member group and a couple of months latter UEE was added which was fortuitous as one of the original members So Young left not long afterwards, then Raina and Nana was added towards the end of 2009 and Lizzy in 2010, afterwards E-young joined and AS became a nine member group but Bekah left in 2011 reducing AS to eight which it remained for most of its life, then in 2012 Kahi my favourite left but was replaced with new member Kaeun, the system seemed to be working but this is the last time that it did work!

If I had to place the point where things failed I believe it starts and ends with Hello Venus the joint project with Fantagio; when the HV project began Pledis placed its two best trainees into the group, trainees who were slated to join AS at some point, if the HV project hadn’t happened those two trainees Yoo Ara and Yoonjo could have very well been available to join AS when Jooyeon left at the end of 2014, Jooyeon marked the first time AS graduated someone without a replacement because Yoo Ara left Pledis three months before Jooyeon and Yoonjo, if the rumours are true, a few months later, the other female trainees were just too young and weren’t ready so AS continued on as seven members.

2014 should have been a comeback year for AS but for the first time they didn’t have a Korean comeback, they did a Japanese comeback which is fair but my observation of Pledis was it was pulling back on costs for some reason and concentrating on projects with a higher chance of financial return and the reason became obvious when Pledis debut a new group SEVENTEEN in 2015.

In a documentary on Nine Muses their CEO said to bring a group to debut costs about a million dollars, Topp Dogg another large boy group was said to cost one and a half million dollars so I don’t think Pledis would have spent any less on debuting SEVENTEEN, but the cost of doing so was yet another year without After School which is the group that costs Pledis the most for comebacks’ due to the time and effort AS puts into their performance, but Pledis didn’t have any choice, SEVENTEEN was ready and too much money had been invested to hold back another year.

Which brings us to 2016 which just happens to be the year the vast majority of the members of AS contracts are due and where I believe the HV projects failure and the two girls in question departure is coming home to roost; if you watched the Produce 101 show its obvious the seven girls Pledis sent are the basis for a new group and sending them to that show is Pledis giving them the media play and exposure for their eventual debut, and if I had to guess 2017 would be the perfect time especially if some make it onto the spec group being formed to promote throughout 2016, Pledis can’t afford to cannibalise those girls for AS because it jeopardises the new group and there is no guarantee all of them will make the grade anyway, so at best Pledis could maybe spare one of them and that’s all.

With no more girls in training that we know of means there are no more spare inductees for AS just at the time AS needs them the most, the system has failed and the timing couldn’t be worse; I’ve said that Jung Ah’s loss is a major one because she is half of AS main vocals and she is also the main dancer and that now leaves AS as a six member group, it would be silly to think that UEE wasn’t going to leave in a couple of months as well which will leave just five members, UEE isn’t that important for singing but she is important because she’s popular and beautiful and because those are the things advertisers look for when deciding CF’s involving groups and when she leaves she takes all that with her.

Will After School survive 2016 and carry on or will it die the death of a thousand cuts as the members leave one by one is open to debate at the moment but the most valuable clue to what will happen will probably go down at Jung Ah’s graduation; I believe that the future of AS can be guessed at then because that would be the perfect time for Pledis to make any announcement about the future and leadership, If UEE becomes the leader that would indicated she intends to stay or renew her contract with Pledis but I don’t think that will happen and so I expect that Raina will become the new leader but if no leader is announced or if Pledis hasn’t decided that could only be because Raina is probably going to leave as well.

Nana said she wants to remain in AS/OC until she’s thirty but if Raina decides to call it quits then both those groups are dead and I’m sure Nana who is in high demand as a model and who probably makes ten times more doing that than music would have to bow to the inevitable and leave followed by Lizzy; Kaeun has been busy making a name for herself as a DJ so I guess we all know what she’ll be doing and E-Young will just quietly leave most likely and that will be the end of After School.

I know this post is long and rambling but I also believe that AS is at the point of no return and maybe the “best” outcome to be expected would be if the OC girls renew and stay as an independent group but like 4Minute I’m also guessing that it all depends on how well OC’s next comeback preforms; while Pledis has said they are talking with the girls about the future and putting in a new member I believe that will only happen on agreement from the girls themselves, the longer no decision is made the more likely it is that more girls are planning to leave and Raina is probably the key given that after UEE she and Nana are next, she’s now the linchpin on both AS and or OC survival, so watch Jung Ah’s graduation closely because like I said the clues will be there.

[OKDR]

I think Adam will go further onto quoting the points he wants to discuss from your message.

You went though a lot of thinking, I will only discuss the misplace of HV. You are partially right that it was the beginning of the failure, but that is also Pledis' incompetence to be able to manage both groups (and NU'EST) at once.

Yes, they did put their 2 best trainees in HV, but that was necessary. Actually, they put 3, but Nicole had serial issues and she left. Adam will correct me if I am wrong, becase right now, I get that part blurred and it could be that it wasn't Nicole but another trainee whom left before debut (what I remember is Nicole giving away that Pledis' had promised her to join AS and they skipped her to place Kaeun, so it may be she wasn't the HV's trainee either).

Placing those 2 new members at the time, wasn't bad game, because fans were already too fearful of new additions, imagine if they had join together (which is what I assume would've happened).

Also: Kahi didn't leave after Kaeun's addition announcement, and it all sounded (by her tweets and comments) like she didn't intent to leave but felt decieved by Pledis and their promises to AS' so she left. My guess at the time, was that she didn't agreed with the trainees' placements on the groups as, perhaps, she had been promised Ara or Yoonjo would join them (or maybe Nicole), and she was already pissed at how the whole Bekah thing had went. She certainly gave up on the group, and that hurt, because if she had left Pledis for good, back then, it would've been different.
By staying, she was giving the statement that she gave up on the group and she only wanted to focus on her. Something I wasn't against, though (I always thought unfair how Pledis didn't gave her a second round at her solo debut, even with the half-arsed results they got. OC just didn't got popular and succesful until A-ing and Bangkok City hit in).

Pledis should had kept AS' promoting at that time, but their previous failures with BLUE and RED (that followed quickly after Virgin's album promos) may had jeopardized any intentions of the company to try harder and look for a digital single to follow up Flashback's come back.

Lack of continuity and lack of resources to pull up the budgets for that are what made AS' be stuck and not profit well enough of their next come back (that took so much effort and investment). It hadn't that much to do with the fact Ara and Yoonjo were somewhere else. The members also stated at the time that they wanted to remain like that for a while. So I don't think the lack of new additions was the factor, but the lack of consistent regularity in Korea.

Again, the fact the group is meant to showcase different types of talents, makes the members too busy to be able to do so many promotions as a group (with music involved). They got to the point they couldn't alternate exposing OC, AS and also Raina (whom started her solo adventure too) with the regularity that would require to actually work.

In other words, the reality suprassed them, they weren't ready to pull what they copied from Japan (actually, non Korean company that has attempted sub-units has been able to make both, sub-units and main groups, stable in their releases, in a regular basis meaning). I think (and that is my own opinion) they tried to be AKS while they've should had focus on becoming a more domestic type of Hello!Project.

Also, the controversy with the MAMA's and so much underratement on awards and such past Pledis' first 2 years and a half of existence, was a factor.

Last but not least, after seeing even Brave Girls' can re-vamp themselves, I still hold hopes of a chance for our girls.

[intrepid]

I shouldn’t post when tired but I couldn’t sleep and had a lot to say, 4AM isn’t the best time to write.

In regards to HV they were managed by Tricell media not Pledis, the only thing Pledis did was training, concept and music for them, and as to a third girl joining HV that turned out to be a rumour with the girl in question confirming she was never considered.
I agree that at the time those two members joining HV wasn’t a bad idea but by doing so has meant that two of the best fully trained candidates to transfer into AS were no longer interested in joining just at the very time they were needed the most and this has left a hole in AS which is yet to be filled.

And Kahi wanted to leave to pursue her solo career earlier around the time of her first solo release but it got delayed and “that” is probably why she may have been pissed, I don’t understand her being upset at Pledis about Bekah’s departure because that was Bekah’s decision not Pledis; from what I understand Pledis gave Bekah time off to go home and talk to her parents and to come to a decision about staying and leaving was Bekah’s own decision so I don’t understand why Kahi would be upset at Pledis for that.

Lastly Brave girls were never popular and they never really established themselves so they could replace every single member and no one would really care but AS is popular and members have their own following which makes for a different situation; even now there are fans that h8 the transfer/graduation system even though if they thought about it AS would have ended years ago if it didn’t exist, the “best” way for such a system to work is to introduce a new member before one of the members are to graduate so we can get used to them and one at a time, right now there are two vacancies and in a couple of months probably three with no one in sight to join, I don’t think fans of AS are going to be welcoming of a large influx of new girls just like what happened with KARA and that was only one new addition and she got a heap of flak, the graduation system works best when it works slow, the problem this year is because the contracts of so many members are in question that if they “all” leave then that is the end of AS because you can’t “re-vamp” that many members and stay popular, the fans will turn their back on AS because it will be just a different group with the same name, the sense of continuance would have been broken.

[OKDR]

you may be right on that, but re-vamping (I've said it a few times already), doesn't necessarily involve join new members. They could try re-vamping the concept with the already existing members, try to re-think their roles and try it harder because, sometimes, I've got the feeling some members aren't at their full potential.

[intrepid]

For the period 24/01/16 – 30/01/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ rose seventeen places to #13 in the Album Chart while ’17 CARAT’ rose one place to #39.

On YouTube Adore U has 7,553,966 views an increase of 152,857 views in a week or 21,836 average views a day while MANSAE now has 8,529,952 views an increase of 262,046 views in a week which averages out at 37,435 views a day while the new collaboration single Q&A has 952,601 views an increase of 42,245 views in a week or 6,035 average views a day on SEVENTEEN’s channel and on 1theK it now has 2,598,758 views an increase of 196,216 views in a week or 28,030 average views a day.

On Mnets official YouTube channel for the show Produce 101 the Pledis Trainees Bang performance is now the third most watched video behind JYP and Jellyfish, it now has 314,226 views so far an increase of 128,120 views since last week.

[PlayboyzAdam]

I think Adam will go further onto quoting the points he wants to discuss from your message.

@OKDR, yes I will...tomrrow. it's nearly 4:00am and all I want to do right now is watch AS videos

On Mnets official YouTube channel for the show Produce 101 the Pledis Trainees Bang performance is now the third most watched video behind JYP and Jellyfish, it now has 314,226 views so far an increase of 128,120 views since last week.

@intrepid, cool you're reporting on that too...I'm going to watch it now

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