Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

[intrepid]

For the period 01/05/16 – 07/05/16 SEVENTEEN’s Pretty U has dropped 32 positions in the Digital Chart to #43 while in the Download Chart it has dropped 26 positions to #31 with  39,909 downloads for ‘Pretty U,’ the other songs from the album are no longer charting so this brings the total for Pretty U after 2 weeks to 135, 499 downloads and for all downloads from their new album the total is 272,746.

In the Streaming Chart ‘Pretty U’dropped 13 places to #57 with 1,166,130 streams, on the Back Ground Music chart BGM ‘Pretty U’ dropped 68 places to #91, and in the weekly Mobile Chart for ringtones ‘Pretty U’ dropped 19 places to #76.

In the Album Charts ‘LOVE&LETTER’ dropped 1 place to #2 while ’17 CARAT’ dropped 2 places to #34 and ‘BOYS BE’ rose 26 places to #25.

The monthly Album totals are…
‘LOVE&LETTER’ is number #1 with 132,402 totals albums sold.
`17 CARAT` rose 3 places to #35 with 2137 albums sold in April bringing the total for the year to 8774.
`BOYS BE` dropped 12 places to #36 with 2046 albums sold in April bringing the total for the year to 14,620.

SEVENTEEN’s total album sales are now…
`BOYS BE` 131,243 + 2046 = 133,289
`17 CARAT` 57,086 + 2137 = 59,223
Total album sales 132,402 + 133,289 + 59,223 = 324,914

According to ASIA Numbers…

“【ORICON】Seventeen's 1st album "LOVE&LETTER" is rockin' japanese charts!

1st week: 11,725 copies sold
2nd week: 4,303 copies sold (Total: 16,028)

"LOVE&LETTER" is now Seventeen's best-selling release in Japan. The previous record was held by "MANSAE" which sold 8,415 copies during 2015.”

On Billboards World Albums chart for the week of May 21, 2016 ‘LOVE&LETTER dropped 4 places to #7

On SEVENTEEN’S Youtube channel Pretty U has 1,644,271 views, Q&A has 1,392,099 views, Mansae has 12,177,082 views and Adore U has 9,486,514 views.

[intrepid]

For the period 08/05/16 – 14/05/16 SEVENTEEN’s Pretty U has dropped 13 positions in the Digital Chart to #56 while in the Download Chart it has dropped 22 positions to #53 with 26,974 downloads for ‘Pretty U,’ this brings the total for Pretty U after 3 weeks to 162, 473 downloads and for all downloads from their new album the total is 299,720.

In the Streaming Chart ‘Pretty U’ dropped 8 places to #65 with 1,000,069 streams.

In the Album Charts ‘LOVE&LETTER’ dropped 6 places to #8 while ’17 CARAT’ dropped 18 places to #52 and ‘BOYS BE’ dropped 22 places to #47.

On SEVENTEEN’S Youtube channel Pretty U has 1,788,392 views, Q&A has 1,408,321 views, Mansae has 12,372,460 views and Adore U has 9,591,527 views.

In other somewhat related news HelloVenus dropped their latest song GLOW which seems to be a non-promoted digital release plus music video, it didn’t chart at all; it looks like Fantagio is taking the roundabout way of bringing HV back to their original concept by trying everything else along the way, it seems to be failing big time.

Pledis Girlz held their first free weekly concert which had no trouble filling the venue despite the modest numbers allowed, they also introduced three girls who didn’t appear on Produce 101 who seem to make up the vocal/rap line of the group and after watching the fancams they sound amazing! If they sound this good in fancams they are going to sound even better on music shows; they also performed two new songs BE ALRIGHT and ROLLERCOASTER which were very good.

Because security didn’t allow filming there aren’t very many good video’s but here are the best ones I’ve found, they are MinKyeong focus but still they show what these girls can do.

[intrepid]

Found another fancam of Pledis Girlz this time a cover in English of 'Stand Up For Love' featuring three girls of the vocal line and damn they are good, I'm mean "really" good, they almost overpower the audio system with their vocals and you can still tell they're holding back, it's like three Aliee's together!

[intrepid]

For the period 15/05/16 – 21/05/16 SEVENTEEN’s Pretty U is the same in the Digital Chart at #56 while in the Download Chart it’s up 4 positions to #49 with 24,298 downloads for ‘Pretty U,’ this brings the total for Pretty U after 4 weeks to 186,771 downloads and for all downloads from their new album the total is 324,018.

In the Streaming Chart ‘Pretty U’ dropped 2 places to #67 with 1,018,520 streams.

In the Album Charts ‘LOVE&LETTER’ rose 2 places to #6 while ’17 CARAT’ rose 11 places to #41 and ‘BOYS BE’ rose 12 places to #35.

On SEVENTEEN’S Youtube channel Pretty U has 1,899,701 views, Q&A has 1,424,676 views, Mansae has 12,563,257 views and Adore U has 9,693,083 views.

[intrepid]

For the period 22/05/16 – 28/05/16 SEVENTEEN’s Pretty U dropped 15 places in the Digital Chart to #71 while in the Download Chart it’s down 22 positions to #71 with 22,764 downloads, this brings the total for Pretty U after 5 weeks to 209,535 downloads and for all downloads from their new album the total is 346,782.

In the Streaming Chart ‘Pretty U’ dropped 5 places to #72 with 933,001 streams.

In the Album Charts ‘LOVE&LETTER’ rose 4 places to #2 while ’17 CARAT’ rose 1 places to #40 and ‘BOYS BE’ dropped 2 places to #37.

[intrepid]

For the period 29/05/16 – 04/06/16 SEVENTEEN’s Pretty U has dropped 14 positions in the Digital Chart to #85 while in the Download Chart it has dropped 15 positions to #86 with  20,237 downloads for ‘Pretty U,’ this brings the total for Pretty U after 6 weeks to 229,772 downloads and for all downloads from their new album the total is 367,019.

In the Streaming Chart ‘Pretty U’dropped 7 places to #79 with 869,604 streams, and for the month of May they are at #66 with 4,531,758 total streams.

In the Album Charts ‘LOVE&LETTER’ dropped 5 place to #7 while ’17 CARAT’ dropped 1 places to #41 and ‘BOYS BE’ dropped 9 places to #46.
For the month of May Seventeen’s ‘LOVE&LETTER’ has dropped 6 places to #7 selling an additional 46,848 albums for the month while `BOYS BE` dropped 5 places to #41 selling another 1682 albuums and `17 CARAT` dropped 18 places to #53 selling 1383 albums for the month.

SEVENTEEN’s total album sales are now…

‘LOVE&LETTER’ 132,402 + 46,848 = 179,250
`BOYS BE` 122,784(2015) + 16,302(2016 so far) = 139,086
`17 CARAT` 52,738(2015) + 10,157(2016 so far) = 62,895
Total album sales to date 179,250 + 139,086 + 62,895 = 381,231

On SEVENTEEN’S Youtube channel Pretty U has 2,106,790 views, Q&A has 1,456,757 views, Mansae has 12,945,523 views and Adore U has 9,894,978 views.

[OKDR]

OMG, props on the girls for choosing Brandy's Slower for her dance segment.

I have mixed feelings about everything.

Regarding HelloVenus, they seem to be failing because they missed their big chance to succeed as one of the remarkable girl groups from their debut year. Everything got lost after the disagreement, and any attempts to get back at it, once their sexy videos seemed to go viral, got reduced to nothing, because the newest groups completely over-shadowed them. Is a pity, because I still find the current line-up solid enough to pull any concepts, but Fantagio also seems to have so many groups on its hands now (not those many, but it seems they can't focus equally on each one of them).

And Pledis Girlz, is something that makes me happy. They seem to be working hard towards a debut. Right now, is like they are being modeled to become the female SEVENTEEN as well as to be able to join the army of TWICE, OMG, Cosmic Girls and such, to compete both in the Korean and Chinese market, that has seen larger groups appear ever since SNH48 started getting some things right (although there's a huge trouble with their agency Star48 and AKS right now, because they expanded without consent), and others like Lunar and 1931 appeared on the map.

However, on the other hand, it gives me insecurities towards where After School is heading. It seems the members are relevant but not the group right now. And I don't see any hints at Pledis wanting to mantain that project in the future. It is even unclear to me if the next girls to expire contract will follow Jung Ah and Juyeon.

I am glad Raina is doing another special collabo with San E, but I am also wondering where will this bring her. I am sad that her solo career doesn't get the deserved attention, and that it doesn't seem to push an After School come back ahead either.

I am also unsure about whether it's good that SEVENTEEN surpasses their sunbaes. I mean NU'EST. I am happy that they, at least, grabbed 1 mutizen, but I am not sure what will the feelings among NU'EST be. There's that chance they might feel like a failure, despite of feeling glad for them, because no matter what they try, they always seem to be unable to break that wall.

I still believe Pledis needs to step up their game, but focus on each 1 of their acts, so no one feels left out or like a failure, despite they do try so hard not to. So there will be no more acts leaving, because their chances at succeeding and making it big are smaller if they stay.

[intrepid]

7 Year Jinx and Why I think After School is probably over    opinion piece.

The 7 year jinx refers to the fact that most Kpop groups have a 7 year contract and when that contract is up for renewal the group most likely disbands, the reason for the disbandment can vary but I believe it is mostly because of an inherent flaw in the Kpop system which isn’t about music but popularity.

Kpop markets music extremely well, the South Korean market is very small yet despite that small size dominates an increasingly global market even in the face of the fact they sing in a language that is geographically exclusive to themselves; this marketing campaign starts by focusing on their target audience which are teenagers and that’s why most groups start out very young in age themselves and usually with a pure and innocent image.

Boy bands tend to do better than girl bands because teenage girls tend to be the most fervent fans but girl bands that can appeal to girls as well also tend to do better than those that only try to appeal to guys, but regardless which side of the coin a group is trying to grab there is a built in time limit that fans can sustain themselves which is usually when they hit their early twenties, that’s when university, dating and work and all the minutia of life intrude to push out the fever of fandom; so if you start out at fifteen as a fan then in about five years or so you’ll probably follow less and less music which is about the same time most groups also start the downward trend in popularity.

You’ll would probably have noticed that the bands that debut and have early success tend to get “group” CF’s and endorsements but after the first year or so that gets whittled down to one or two of the most attractive members and rarely do the other members get the same opportunities again unless they (the group) put out another massive hit.
That is also “intentional” and part of the “flaw” that I mentioned above and will explain in more detail; a Kpop group requires a combination of factors to succeed, of course they need to sing well, they also need to be uniquely attractive and be able to dance, and while some groups have members that have some or all of these qualities there are members that just don’t seem to fit in a “music group” and that's because they aren’t there as musicians but as models or actors.

Music doesn’t make much money in Korea unless you are top tier and most popular group members make only as much money as the average office worker off music, digital downloads are really cheap, cheaper than the equivalent iTunes download and to make matter worse that is declining in favour of streaming which returns even less to the artist and this is why album sales make a huge impact as well as the overseas market.

The “intention” and the “flaw” come into play here because not every member is going to be “popular” no matter how well a company promotes them and its they who miss out on the spoils after the group transitions from “group popularity” to “individual popularity” and that inevitably creates problems because they are left to fend for themselves while the group hiatuses to take advantage of the individual “popular members” who are actually the ones bringing in the real money.

If I was to speculate I would guess Nana probably made more money in the last year than probably the vast majority of her music career, how do I know? Well Son Dambi was reported to have made $420,000 USD for being the exclusive model for Enprani in 2011, that’s “one” endorsement and she doesn’t have to share it with other people and only Pledis gets the managing cut, not bad for just looking pretty, Nana is endorsing a Chinese makeup brand, Xtep, sketchers plus others at the moment I can’t even remember and she never seems be short of offers and that’s even with After School being off the Korean scene for three years, Nana no longer needs the popularity of AS to get work because it’s become self-sustaining.
This was the “intention” of putting someone like Nana in AS in the first place because the fee that Pledis earns off her requires little to no capital investment on their part and the more money she makes the more they make, and as a business which exists to make money this is good for Pledis as it feeds growth and stainability, but the “flaw” is that it means Nana might choose this career over her singing career because it makes her more money and requires less effort and because Pledis “wants” to keep her happy and for both of them to make money that starts to push the music part of her career off to the side.

But Nana’s modelling career is also finite and will diminish when she hits her thirties so she is embarking on another career which is acting, the process of choice for singing idols who want to have an entertainment career after their music career fades, and while she has had various stabs at acting, this year seems to be her first foray into a serious role and if she does well or gets praised for it this could lead to more offers which again also puts a wedge between her music career and the path she is currently choosing for herself.

This brings us to the other “popular” member of AS, Uee, she “is” a serious actor and over the last couple of years has done some very good roles which have garnered her a lot of praise with her last drama consistently winning its ratings slot, and even though Uee has been acting for a while it has only had a small impact on AS activities but as more and better roles have come in she has devoted more of her time to acting, and like Nana and modelling, acting brings in good money for Uee who also does a lot of modelling as well, and because she is already in the age bracket for a career change Uee will go into acting full time very soon probably this very year I would guess.

The reason I mention this is because I want people to understand something fundamental, when a Kpop group starts out all the members are on the same page with the same goal and the same dream, but as time passes the individual desires and ambitions start to come to the fore and cracks appear as the company managing them is no longer just juggling a “group career” but several “individual” ones as well and we also have to understand that the company isn’t deliberately trying to vex us, there is no “dungeon,” what we are experiencing is the natural evolution that every Kpop band goes through and why 7 years is the cut-off point.

After School débuted in 2009 and peeked in 2011-2012 and this is the point where group activities started to gradually give way to individual ones and 2013-2014 (Korea/Japan) marked the end of most of After Schools group activities, they rarely did shows anymore as a group or concerts and even their last reality show ‘After School’s Beauty Bible’ was marked more by the absences of most of the members with only half the group being on it most of the time and they being the least popular members because of the rest individual schedules.

But After School was supposed to be the group that bucks the trend, it had a built in failsafe to protect it from the 7 year jinx, it was called the “graduation system!” Yes that much maligned system that the fans complain about even though it isn’t forced, even though that without members like Raina and Nana joining they probably wouldn’t have won their first trophy, the system that if it didn’t exist would have meant AS disbandment years ago, yep “that” graduation system.

Putting in new members can have a positive effect, they can breathe new life into a group, give it new options and broaden its appeal, and this is exactly what happened when Uee, Raina, Nana and Lizzy joined, each had unique qualities that made them fan favourites and gave AS even broader appeal but the last two additions were not as big a hit; E-Young was a musical instrument virtuoso which was played up when she first joined and they pushed the “rock chick” angle, while AS is a band it isn’t one that plays instruments other than in one offs, E-Young’s strengths were not going to be used to any great effect by AS so as soon as the novelty wore off so E-Young was forced to fall back on her natural charms to help promote AS, unfortunately her overall being is pretty meh; don’t get me wrong I’m not saying she is terrible but she lacks the personality of Nana or Lizzy that would make her popular on variety shows, she’s pretty but not to the extent that she’s really noticed or can get jobs modelling, her singing is good but not good enough to be a soloist and while she dances very well again not to the extent that it stands out, without her instruments she really is invisible compared to the other girls and while fans criticised Pledis for not promoting her more as being the reason for her lack of recognition I would strongly disagree, she’s had plenty of opportunities it’s just that she doesn’t have that “it” factor that makes you pay attention to her and no matter how much Pledis tried she was never going to stand out, it’s unfortunate but that’s how it goes sometimes. KaEun also suffers from the same problem, and while she’s more model like material than E-Young and has a more engaging personality she has nearly all the same drawbacks that E-Young has and again it not because Pledis didn’t promote her, they did, but again like E-Young she didn’t stand out and those opportunities don’t come around again if you fail to appeal yourself.

I wouldn’t say their lack of appeal was much of a problem but when you have large personalities like Kahi and Bekah leaving it does create a vacuum that isn’t properly filled, and this is where the induction/graduation system started to fail because without the new blood bringing in new fans then the group doesn’t get to renew itself. But the point where I think the system failed was when Juyeon left and wasn’t replaced, here you clearly have a need that wasn’t filled, I argued at the time that if Pledis had done so this would have been a sign that Pledis believed in AS’s future and not doing so sent the opposite message; I don’t know why she wasn’t replaced, maybe the other girls didn’t want another member, maybe Pledis didn’t have anyone suitable, who knows, but now that Jung Ah has left, Pledis did make the statement about possible additions while in talks with the other members.

Uee’s contract is supposed to be due this year, in fact if the calculations are correct it has already run out in April but we have yet to hear anything which is part of the course but two months is a long time not to hear anything, but the possible reason is Uee hasn’t decided anything as yet because she’s on a break or she is still evaluating the no doubt numerous offers from other companies; I doubt that she is going to continue in AS, her path is clearly acting and she is at the age singing idols make that change so I doubt anyone is going to be surprised by that announcement when it comes, in fact I’m going to predict that the next Uee announcement we hear is that she’s signed with a big acting company.

Nana and Raina’s contracts should be due about October which is a mere four months away and despite the fact that they hinted at an OC comeback this summer that is looking less likely to me with only two month left until that ends in September; Raina is promoting with San E from June 17th to sometime in July and Nana’s TV show The Good Wife starts on July 8th and will probably go 8 weeks if it’s the standard length of 16 episodes and aired twice weekly meaning it will finish sometime in September after summer has finished and one month before their contracts run out, it’s not impossible but I don’t see how they can squeeze it in unless it’s just a digital track but then why bother at all since such tracks rarely do well.

Nana as I’ve said before doesn’t need AS or OC to advance her career anymore and acting is something she has stated in the past as an active goal which is now coming to fruition, it’s clear she’ll wants to do more and more acting and her modelling career is so strong she can afford to build up her acting credibility slowly while still being popular and making bank, if anything her singing career is getting in the way of that because it takes up a large part of her time with little financial reward other than popularity which she already has. Raina is a singer and that’s her strength and she’s been trying to be known as a soloist with some success so I see her continuing along that path but to be really successful a company like Jellyfish or even Brandnew would offer her better opportunities to make the sort of music she likes to do but she can still do that under Pledis but if Nana leaves she’ll probably leave as well and that’s it for OC, and AS is dead because there would be no point trying to rebuild an old group that’s in its twilight years and no longer has its most popular and talented members.

If Pledis had put in new younger members when Juyeon had left taking into consideration Jung Ah and Uee leaving in the near future at that point AS could have renewed itself by bringing it back to the music rather than the individual members activities, it could have meant regular comebacks as most of the girls would be on the same page with the same goal again, but at this point I think it’s too late, AS has been away too long and too many up and comers have moved in and I doubt Pledis wants to sacrifice any of its trainees from Pledis Girlz to try and prop up AS especially if as I believe Nana at the very least is going to leave this year and maybe Raina as well, it would be as pointless as pumping up a flat tyre with the hole still in it and be a waste of whoever that girl(s) are to join a group that’s loosing members especially when it looks like Pledis is going to debut them soon in a new group anyway.

Because of Uee and Nana’s popularity and money making potential Pledis now has to compete with other companies for their contracts but while Pledis helped create their popularity it’s still a relatively small company and when competing with the sort of companies that will no doubt be bidding on them I doubt Pledis has the financial ability to match what those other companies will offer; while I can’t say with certainty that Nana or Raina will leave at the end of their contracts let me quote from Cube where 4Minute just disbanded. A rep said, “As the contract end date approaches, the members have been in discussions for renewal, but while the agency tried to persuade them to continue the group, it ended up accepting the decision by the five members that they will not continue as a group.” The rep adds, “Due to the different opinion of the members, for all intents and purposes, the group will disband.” This is relevant in that 4Minute was more of a “true” music group than After School in that the members were more focused on music than outside activities like acting and modelling, they still did those things but not to the same extent that the AS girls do and because of that they were more consistently active year to year than what AS was and like what Pledis had said Cube still wanted them to continue in that capacity and yet it was the girls themselves that said no; what I’m getting from the reps statement is that all the girls had different ideas on what they wanted to do and it would have made continuing as a group difficult because their individual activities would get in the way, much like what’s already happening with the AS members as individual activities here are making it hard for them to come together as a group.

It’s clear that a lot of AS members are forging ahead with new careers and those careers are incompatible with regular comebacks, just getting all the girls in the same place for any activity is next to impossible, even getting the OC girls together recently for a song off against Red Velvet resulted in only two being able to attend with Nana busy with another schedule, how can Nana’s acting/endorsements/modelling and Raina’s solo music and KaEun’s DJing and Lizzy’s variety show appearances coexist with the long training of both AS and OC comebacks, it’s just too much especially when the group is now in its twilight years, something has to give and 4Minute just gave us a glimpse on the thinking involved, if the group isn’t working then disband!

I think Nana has already given us a hint on what she thinks the outcome is going to be when she deleted “After School_Orange Caramel” from her Instagram which has 1.3 million followers with no explanation even after she was bombarded with please explains from fans, maybe this was the closest hint she could do that wouldn’t violate her contractual obligations so us fans could prepare ourselves.

I love After School, it was the first Kpop band I ever saw and they awed me with their music, performance, visuals and quirky personality’s, they also introduced me to the world of Kpop with bands Like Kara, 4Minute, SECRET, 2NE1, Miss A and F(x) which all debuted around the same time, but now some are gone and some have lost members and some seem on the brink of going as well, it breaks my heart and all at once, and I think it’s just because AS members joined at different times that we are getting the worst Kpop group death which is slow and drawn out, I want AS to continue I want the OC girls to stay but that doesn’t seem to be what’s going to happen and I just don’t know what to do about it or how to feel, I want to blame someone, I want to blame “Pledis” but while I think Pledis “is” responsible it’s not because they locked up AS in some dungeon or were bad with promotions, it’s because they created a group to succeed which contained the “fatal flaw” that all successful kpop groups have that eventually end them when individual activities overwhelm group ones, AS individual members success is what has brought down AS/OC the group.

We think of AS as a “group” but the reality is they are a group of “individuals” who have their own dreams expectations and goals, even before debut Juyeon flat out said she wanted to be an actor and joining AS was a means to do that and when she left she left to become an actor full stop! Some members like Jung Ah only wanted to sing but despite being a talented singer she never got the recognition that would have sparked a solo career and AS being on hiatus was a burden for her and she even said she couldn’t “just” follow her dream she worried about making a living as well, and this seems to have been a deciding factor in her leaving; Jung Ah was the not only the leader of AS she seems to be its centre as well and social media attests that all the other members love her dearly, while Kahi may have given AS its drive and purpose Jung Ah gave AS it’s heart, she more than anyone was probably the glue keeping AS together but now that we are at the 7 year crisis point is there any hope?

I have tried to look at the current situation objectively and to be honest I don’t see AS continuing because you need the current members to stay and you need to at least add new members because at “this” moment you have OC which are more popular than AS plus two members who are not popular and the chances are Nana at least will probably go and Raina maybe as well; to beat the 7 year jinx and for AS to continue and thrive Pledis needs to add new blood, they need to find the next Nana, Raina and Lizzy to draw new fans in while keeping the original Nana Raina and Lizzy for continuance and to keep the older fans happy, but the odds of that happening are slim and I think even “that” is being generous. 4Minute was a group that I thought would have re-signed because they seemed more focused and less distracted than what AS members currently are plus musically they were very strong but even a group like that just ended, Minzy from 2NE1 left, one of the most popular groups out there who still rank high and yet she left to do her own thing, Kara disbanded and it not like the individual members popularity was that strong that they are doing better now than when they were in a group and yet they still broke up, I think SECRET will also disband this year because like AS the individual members are more focused on themselves than the group.

In conclusion I want to have hope, I want After School to come back in 2017 bigger and stronger than before but I would take just Orange Caramel staying together as a consolation prize, but let’s be honest with ourselves here, is given what we know about recent past history and how the idol industry works do we really believe that is what’s going to happen?

[OKDR]

That is the same problem I am seeing. Not continuing the flow. I know members got tired of the system, because anytime someone new came, it was a lot of work and re-adjusting, but that also killed pretty much the chances of the entity of AS to continue after the current members decide to leave :\

I think it also explains a lot why they are focusing on Raina so much and not trying anything to push forward the "unkown" members (E-Young & Kaeun).

[OKDR]

With the release of WE, showing they seem to intend to keep Pledis Girlz as they are now (plus Nayeong & Pinky), I am about to finally assume they are dropping AS as a whole group concept :\ and it's pitiful, because it seems they don't even know when's the right timing to officially announce it.

If AS is remaining and comes back later, it will be a trully unexpected and grateful surprise.

[intrepid]

So I’ve watched The Unit or uni+ as it likes to be stylised, at least the first three episodes and despite reports that Pledis was participating I saw nobody from Pledis in any episode, so I don’t know what’s up with that.

Everyone seemed to think a member from After School was going to be on it as that was the only group that needed “rebooting” but there was nada, not a single face from Pledis to be seen so either the report was wrong or whoever was sent didn’t even qualify to even be judged which would be worse than participating in the first place, but there was a “former” Pledis person there, Yoon jo, so maybe someone confused her as the “Pledis” person going but she left Pledis and joined a modelling company Sublime Artist Agency so it can’t be her…


But I rechecked and she is no longer listed there...
http://sublimeartist.co.kr/

So I don't know about her circumstance but she is on the Green Team.

[OKDR]

Hey, hi. Nice to read you the day I had time to come back (been out for months, focusing on only studying).

I happen to be posting about Pledis earlier today XD a long twitter post that started quoting a blogger.

I also ended up half of explaining why I don't think AS will be revamped.

The company has given enough signs of them not being interested into refloating the group.

However, how sad they don't even try to give E-Young some life... but I am not quite sure a show like The Unit would do for her.

I was sure that Produce would help NU'EST, even when I disagreed on the show choice (all the sunbaes vs real rookies controversy coming up to harm them), as long as they could show the audience that they were humble and they were trully desperate.

But I can't see E-Young trying too hard in a similar show and, I am not sure if Kaeun is done with the Id@lmaster thing (?).

Also, lately, by their posts on SNS I got the feeling Lizzy is done with everything and just waiting for her contract to expire.

Nana is still doing some work, but I bet she'll leave like Uee did, to focus on her acting/modeling career.

Raina... well, not sure if being called the Digital sells queen will be enough for her to stay. Pledis didn't bother much with Jung Ah, so she parted ways, but they aren't pushing Raina to be more famous as a solo singer either. I don't think is wrong, though. I don't see Raina going up against the likes of IUs, AiLees, and whoever is rellevant as a soloist. She found what worked for her and Pledis is just milking that.

I can see why Yoonjo is there though. Her chances went off the day she was pulled out of Hello Venus (and Pledis didn't had much plans for her or Ara, either), but she is still someone with singing skills that shouldn't be just discarded like that.

I made amends with my hard feelings for Pledis not investing more into After School the day I realized PRISTIN were re-shaped to become their new main girl group.

I wasn't even mad, because the members from PRISTIN don't deserve the love either. Most of them waited patiently in line for their time to come, whether it was joining AS or getting a different group, so it's not their fault that Pledis isn't betting on AS anymore.

The whole thing died slowly for several different reasons, but not because Pledis suddenly switched their interests into making a newer group that could succeed were AS didn't.

We surely all have many regrets on things they could had done, but I least I am at peace because I know the group (with its ups and downs) lived the most normal life possible considering its unique shape and the circumstances they faced sometimes.

There still could be a small (really small) possibility about Pledis keeping Kaeun & E-Young and revamping them somehow, but I don't honestly see that happening (nor the rest of the members staying at this rate).

I am not even that sure if Raina will want to remain at Pledis once her contract is also over.

[intrepid]

Hi OKDR.


Back to business, The Unit, I now believe Pledis did send someone and that person was indeed Yoon Jo!

I don't know how this came about because we know she left Pledis and joined a modeling agency as I've pointed out above, but Yoon Jo posed a short video on her IG account...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbbgMXKg4iX/?taken-by=_yoonjo

That is clearly Pledis's basement practice room and if you need to compare here is Sungyeon and Rena in the same room during a Vlive, if you go to the 15:04 mark Rena moves the camera closer to place where Yoon Jo was sitting so you get a very good view.




So I don't know how this came about or what this means or what going to come of this but I guess time will tell.

[OKDR]

Well, she could perfectly realized it was better for her to re-join Pledis. I am glad if she did that.

I also forgot yesterday to mention in any of the places I posted that soon Pledis will take on managing the winning unit of Idol School.

Han Sung Soo will do that personally, he will produce them and it's been said that Pledis will act as their agency.

That may complicate a little the advancement of PRISTIN... or maybe no. Maybe he has a whole different team to do so, and I guess the funds come from all the TV show investors (?).

But what I mean by this is, I hardly see them rebooting After School anytime soon.

For me, the best they could do, is give a farewell concert, invite everybody, please the fans, but also praise the girls and thank them for their hard work and contribution.

[intrepid]

Well, she could perfectly realized it was better for her to re-join Pledis. I am glad if she did that.

In an interview she said ' "I'm trying to debut as an actor while taking acting lessons." she said, telling her current plan. She expressed her hope to sing and deliver her music to the public through other way, not as a girl group member.'

This was about the last we heard about her until she showed up in that other agency; if she want's to debut as a solo singer I can sort of understand going back to Pledis but that is really hard to do, but putting her motivations aside I don't see what's in it for Pledis taking her back, they only just started to recruit trainees again so even if she's now willing to re-debut in another girl-group that's going to be awhile, if by some miracle she's joining AS what she's doing now does makes sense but I don't see that happening for reasons I've already made clear, if she's trying to gain profile to go into acting well Pledis isn't the right place for her and she should have joined an acting agency, this is just as confusing as it could be but maybe I'm still surprised she's back, or at least seems to be.

[OKDR]

Well, that could be Adam's hope for AS to trully revive from their own almost ashes. Like, adding Yoonjo into the mix with E-Young & Kaeun. Not sure about OC, probably they won't be there by then. But that is a possibility that, as crazy as it may sound, I would never discard.

If she is back to Pledis, maybe she has realized she prefers to keep singing and follow the steps Uee, Juyeon and Nana took under Pledis.

I know is not the best company for actors, but we can't just ignore what they actually did for some of the girls. Surely they also limited their possibilities, but they also made audiences appreciate idols as actually good actors.

It may not be the best choice to have a great actress career, but the right one to have a good and nice start at it. It already paved the way for Uee and Nana so far.

[intrepid]

Well the first good news in awhile is that Nana renewed her contract which also makes her the first Pledis artist to do so.

In other news Pledis has finally updated their website and it's a lot more polished than it's old one but it still seems to be a work in progress at the moment, interestingly it now has an "actors" page with only two names, Nana and Kaeun, notably absent is Lizzy though.
But it did give Nana's debut day 2009.11.25 which would also be Raina's as well so her contract will run out in 4 days.
Lizzy I think would be in March next year, fingers crossed Raina re-signs.

[OKDR]

Well, to be fair, Lizzy was more of an entertainer than an actress. I've only seen her in comedies and then other variety shows.

Props to Nana to prove me wrong. I had less hopes since Uee left, because it seemed she's a lot into acting now. But props for her to trust into Pledis, where others didn't at the time to renew.

I hope Raina stays. But she could prove me wrong too. I just hope she stays because she's at least having a decent digital solo career, and Pledis could try to crossover into making here a solid physical releases soloist too.

[intrepid]

Unless Raina leaves to retire her starting anew in a different company would be a huge mistake unless it's a well known company, her problem is at the time of her debut she was considered one of the top 5 vocalists in idol groups, but that was then, today there are heaps of really good singers around, just look at Pristin, they have at least 3 singers who are as good as Raina if not better and that's just in the same company as her.

Even Jeyner from 4minute is struggling and she is also a very good singer plus she's younger better looking and a much better dancer than Raina is and she's but one former member from a girlgroup that isn't getting traction trying to go solo, there's also Sera from 9muses and Nicole from Kara and Minzy from 2NE1 as well, it's really really hard.

[OKDR]

Jeyner's non success, unfortunately I always feared it. Because CUBE tried to push her once and then they backed off. Later she got the sub-unit but that didn't go anywhere.
Judging by the girls' comments after disbandment (I read a piece on soompi), CUBE just discard them all (as some of us were expecting) but Hyuna.

It seems that individually Jeyner (Jiyoon) never got the interest that Hyuna seemed to generate and now she has to start afresh because last 4Minute releases are said to be flops for the company, so I guess that also translates in a lack of Korean interest for any member that's not Hyuna.

At least Raina seems to have a fanbase. Maybe small, but a fanbase and some more general recognition.

Raina has a lot of competition, sure, but I believe that if she stays in Pledis, she doesn't have to fear being much pushed to obtain something she would have too much hard to obtain. As you said, it's really hard for ex girl group members to make it, especially if they weren't the most popular among the group.

[intrepid]

Well I guess we'll know over the weekend unless something is leaked/announced beforehand since her contract expires tomorrow but at this late stage all I'm expecting to hear is that she has graduated After School naturally after the expiration of her contract.

[intrepid]

After School, Pledis’s prototype for group success.

For my musings/speculations today I’m going to state something that I think should be obvious but I’ve not yet seen anyone one else talking about, and that’s what is Pledis “plan” when it comes to making music groups.

When SEVENTEEN debut they were a huge group even by Korean standards of huge groups and I wondered at the time how anyone would stand out and how it would function but looking back there is something unique about the way SEVENTEEN works and it can be traced back to After School.

I believe that while SEVENTEEN “looks” like a “group” it really isn’t, the sub unit’s are the “true” groups and the whole is just a cover, SEVENTEEN is modular, it can break down into smaller mix-and-match components and still work perfectly well; it also can compose different genres of music to compliment whatever those subunits are and choreograph accordingly, SEVENTEEN can do what no other group has ever done, it can reinvent itself through constant change an adapt overtime showing new sides of themselves which is the only “true way” groups last.

Pristin also has this system though less obvious because unlike SEVENTEEN they didn’t debut touting sub units as part of their makeup, yet if you look at the members themselves and their abilities it should be plain to see that Pristin is far more stacked with musical talent than the average “idol group.”
Pristin V is the first part of what Pristin actually is, two smaller groups acting as one group under the name of Pristin, the remaining members which are three vocalists and two rapper/vocalist is the same makeup as Pristin V and I expect they’ll debut with a different concept to what we’ve seen so far from either Pristin or Pristin V.

This is an ongoing process but bringing it back to the beginning you can see all of this in After School; everything from a completely independent and unique subunit Orange Caramel to the temporary groups Red and Blue, a way to break down the main unit into smaller parts that show a different side musically and keep things interesting.

This also makes E-Youngs inclusion to After School much less puzzling; I’ve always maintained that she was “overqualified” to be in an “idol group” because she is a “true musician” and After School wouldn’t be able to utilise her true potential, but if you look at her as proto Woozi then her addition makes total sense.

The sad part for After School is they didn’t debut with this in mind and they were merely the test bed for these ideas over time, and because of that they didn’t get the chance take advantage of everything that those ideas would have brought to the table, NU’EST also didn’t get to take advantage because they debuted before these ideas were fully tested and solidified into a cohesive whole, but you can see in SEVENTEEN/Pristin just how inventive and powerful those ideas are in practice when fully implemented.

I’ve always maintained that Pledis was ahead of the game and not merely a follower when it came to the Kpop game and it was just it’s size and limited resources that’s held it back, while all Kpop companies follow the “SM model” of Idol group construction Pledis is bringing it to the next level, they are the SAS of companies with highly trained and flexible idols specialised to overcome any obstacles that mainstream idol groups couldn’t, don’t believe me? Then what this space.

[intrepid]

[intrepid]

Raina has opened her own Youtube channel.

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