[Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:04 am

intrepid wrote:I’ve seen the seven possible candidates on Produce 101 and only about 2-3 are ready, and to be perfectly honest Pledis probably needs the most talented of the trainees to be kept together to form the core of a new group as they aren’t more than a year away from being debut.

To go forward AS needs another great vocalist and I didn’t get that vibe from those girls yet, and that means outsourcing for someone who is good at singing and dancing and above all performance
@intrepid Have you seen episode 3 of Produce 101 yet? That vibe that you hadn't seen in the Pledis girls yet, it's there Very Happy

cheers


In the group battle Siyeon had the role as the main vocalist in her team and Pinky had the role of...2nd vocalist to the main vocalist...I think...oh who cares THEY SLAYED Very Happy As of this episode they got the 2nd and 3rd highest points of all the contestant.


intrepid wrote:Jung Ah was important as After School’s main vocalist and when Raina joined that was when After School truly began to shine musically; Jung Ah’s incredible vocals in the low to midrange perfectly complemented Raina’s mid to high and gave AS an all-round sound that was needed
@intrepid in my opinion Raina wasn't needed but having her in After School gave After School a lot more options to work with. Jung Ah's importance isn't dictated by her ability to compliment Raina, Jung Ah can stand on her own as a vocalist. Jung Ah has a beautiful husky vocal and even if her vocal aren't considered that great compared to other artist, Jung Ah sings with emotions and that helps provide sincerity in AS vocals.

intrepid wrote:coming from Western music I was used to people who are just good singers because that’s all they have to be to succeed, they don’t need to dance and they don’t really need to be all that good looking because in the end its just about the music
@intrepid, One of the main appeals of Kpop is that it's not all just about the music. Music is only one form of artistic expression, dance is another and so are After School's special performances. If I was all about the music then I would have never been an After School fan.

intrepid wrote:The Kpop business is selling the product of a group based on popularity, sure the music has to be there for them to get noticed but that’s when all the “other” factors fall into play to hook you and not let go
@intrepid Pledis isn't like other Kpop businesses and that I'm grateful for Very Happy

intrepid wrote:...I was unprepared for the impact Kpop and its marketing would have on me, they fed my every craving in sight and sound and its led me to my doom.
intrepid, I hope when you said that, that wasn't inclusive of After School. After School didn't lead me to my doom. After School lead me to a path of enlightenment, lead me to ask questions about myself and think about why I am the way I am... and they're pretty entertaining to watch too Very Happy

intrepid wrote:So now I’m a playboyz, a name I personally despise but what are you going to do that’s the fandoms name so I go with it
@intrepid, sorry to tell you but our official fandom name is Playgirlz...international fans call ourselves Playboyz because it's sort of sounds better...we're being trolled.

intrepid wrote:it still hurts when someone goes but there is still enough of the others that a sense of continuance remains, but now that system has seemingly collapsed and I don’t see a fix in sight
@intrepid if the system has seemingly collapsed for you then you should take another look because the system hasn't collapse yet.

intrepid wrote:it still hurts when someone goes but there is still enough of the others that a sense of continuance remains
@intrepid, Being an After School fan, I've learnt to focus on celebrating the achievements and memories of the people that's left instead of dwelling over their departure. It does hurt and Jung Ah has graduated but HOW AWESOME IS SHE Very Happy


Last edited by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:39 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:04 am

intrepid wrote:...but now that system has seemingly collapsed and I don’t see a fix in sight
@intrepid if the system has seemingly collapsed for you then you should take another look because the system hasn't collapse yet. I know a fix(es) for it but it depends on the co-operations of this fandom to make it work but I know this fandom too well to know that they'll rather watch AS die off and be ready to blame it on Pledis then do anything meaningful to help...that is this fandom in a nut shell...hmmm I should do one of my angry rants...

intrepid wrote:When AS began in January of 2009 it was a five member group and a couple of months latter UEE was added which was fortuitous as one of the original members So Young left not long afterwards, then Raina and Nana was added towards the end of 2009 and Lizzy in 2010, afterwards E-young joined and AS became a nine member group but Bekah left in 2011 reducing AS to eight which it remained for most of its life, then in 2012 Kahi my favourite left but was replaced with new member Kaeun, the system seemed to be working but this is the last time that it did work!
@intrepid If you're saying the system has failed then you either don't know what the system was about or seeing it wrong.

intrepid wrote:if you watched the Produce 101 show its obvious the seven girls Pledis sent are the basis for a new group and sending them to that show is Pledis giving them the media play and exposure for their eventual debut
@intrepid I don't make assumptions like that. I do hope that Siyeon will join After School one day though.

intrepid wrote:Pledis can’t afford to cannibalise those girls for AS because it jeopardises the new group and there is no guarantee all of them will make the grade anyway, so at best Pledis could maybe spare one of them and that’s all.
I've see enough Produce 101 to know that those Pledis trainees past the grade. Makes me wonder if we were lied to when we were told that kauen had the best vocal amongst the trainees...I do have a theory concerning Kauen, Avex and Kahi's graduation but this isn't the time to go into it.

intrepid wrote:With no more girls in training that we know of means there are no more spare inductees for AS just at the time AS needs them the most, the system has failed and the timing couldn’t be worse
@intrepid, so far you've just assumed that After School needs new members and you've assumes that the Pledis Girls(i.e. Produce 101 ones) won't join After School and you've assume that Pledis has no other trainees left. I'll remind you that no one knew about Kaeun's existence until she join AS.

intrepid wrote:I’ve said that Jung Ah’s loss is a major one because she is half of AS main vocals and she is also the main dancer and that now leaves AS as a six member group
@intrepid Nana is also a main dancer and her dancing skill are actually under rated. Nana's dancing skills are better than Jung Ah's and Nana has best Kahi in some performances.

intrepid wrote:I know this post is long and rambling but I also believe that AS is at the point of no return and maybe the “best” outcome to be expected would be if the OC girls renew and stay as an independent group
@intrepid ...well this annoys the crap out of me to hear coming from an AS fan...like Nana has said, OC=AS, you can't throw away the other members. After School with just Raina, Nana, Lizzy, E-young and Kaeun is still After School.  3 core performers annd 2 backup dancers/vocalist was exactly how After School started.

OKDR wrote:Actually, they put 3, but Nicole had serial issues and she left. Adam will correct me if I am wrong, becase right now, I get that part blurred and it could be that it wasn't Nicole but another trainee whom left before debut (what I remember is Nicole giving away that Pledis' had promised her to join AS and they skipped her to place Kaeun, so it may be she wasn't the HV's trainee either).
@OKDR, that latter part of what you said was correct. Nicole said she was never meant to join Hello Venus, she just trained with them. Nicole was suppose to join After School and in Nicoles defence she didn't had "serial issues", she was next in line to join After School(from my understanding) but somehow Kaeun joined instead and that's what lead to her behaviour.

OKDR wrote:Also: Kahi didn't leave after Kaeun's addition announcement, and it all sounded (by her tweets and comments) like she didn't intent to leave but felt decieved by Pledis and their promises to AS' so she left. My guess at the time, was that she didn't agreed with the trainees' placements on the groups as, perhaps, she had been promised Ara or Yoonjo would join them (or maybe Nicole), and she was already pissed at how the whole Bekah thing had went.
@OKDR, All we really know from Kahi's tweet was that she was surprise about Kaeun joining and she wasn't happy about it. Yeah, I know Kahi's following tweet says this isn't the case but my impression of it was that she was just doing damage control to get fans to support kaeun. Anyting else beyound that is just a wild ass guess including my opinion about Kahi's graduation and why she graduated. It could very well be then case that Nicole was suppose to join given Nicoles response when Kauen joined but I think(i.e. no concrete evidence) Avex was the one responsible for Kauen joining After School, or at least had a hand in her admission to After School. I didn't know about Kahi being angry about the Bekah thing, please elaborate on that.

OKDR wrote:She certainly gave up on the group, and that hurt, because if she had left Pledis for good, back then, it would've been different.
By staying, she was giving the statement that she gave up on the group and she only wanted to focus on her.
@OKDR I was thinking that Pledis was just trying to help Kahi out with her career so they graduated her so she can focus on her solo career...OK, I've been saying that all over the place(in this fandom and Youtube) but I'll be honest now...that's actually what I wanted and when I say "I think" that's a synonym for I've got nothing concrete to back it up. I hated Avex, After School's Japanese promotions and I use to be a Jpop fan for many years before becoming an After School fan but After School Japanese promotions are far below the Jpop that I like and I especially hated seeing Kahi being promoted like that and wanted her to graduate...turned out to be a decision I really regretted cause now I really want her back in After School. Although for awhile, the decision was a good one because she did cameback with something that spoke truly of who Kahi was and it spoke why Kahi was ulltimate bias Very Happy

OKDR wrote:The members also stated at the time that they wanted to remain like that for a while. So I don't think the lack of new additions was the factor
@OKDR more specifically they told Pledis to not add a new member because it changes the group dynamics(this was for their First Love promotion). Right now, they group needs some stability...although I wouldn't mind if Siyeon joined them.

intrepid wrote:In regards to HV they were managed by Tricell media not Pledis, the only thing Pledis did was training, concept and music for them
@intrepid Tricell Media was a joint venture between Pledis and Fantagio. Both Pledis and Fantagio was part of Tricell Media. Pledis was responsible for Hello Venus' idol activity promotions and Fantagio was responsible for Hello Venus acting career promotions. When Pledis and Fantagio called it quits, Tricell Media died.

intrepid wrote:And Kahi wanted to leave to pursue her solo career earlier around the time of her first solo release but it got delayed and “that” is probably why she may have been pissed
@intrepid I'll just like to remind everyone that no one actually knows the details of Kahi's graduation besides what Kahi has tweeted and anything apart from that are just speculations.

intrepid wrote:I don’t understand her being upset at Pledis about Bekah’s departure because that was Bekah’s decision not Pledis; from what I understand Pledis gave Bekah time off to go home and talk to her parents and to come to a decision about staying and leaving was Bekah’s own decision so I don’t understand why Kahi would be upset at Pledis for that
@intrepid @OKDR I don't remember Kahi being angry about about it. Can you guys point me to some references?


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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by OKDR on Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:40 am

About Bekah's departure, I'll state the two facts:

Bekah actually "left" before the official graduation. She was given time to think about it (as explained way later) and the excuse was she had a vacation to visit her family in Hawaii.

When Bekah came back, she had already made up her mind, however, she gave it a try with another come back, but decided to leave for good when Virgin album was being promoted.

Then we have the members' reactions:

Kahi did explain in twitter that she was sad, because she specifically hand-picked Bekah. She had a series of tweets back then that were pretty depressing to read. She seemed disappointed (not with Bekah) on how the things had ended. And by "the things" I am talking about the fact Bekah had got several months out of the group to re-consider her graduation.

The second thing we know, is how Bekah opened herself on her social media, explaining that she had been looked down at Pledis and had been pressured to "change". Back in the day, Korean fans disliked Bekah and called her fat. It was just an Intl' fans guess to connect those two factors and come to the conclusion that she might been pressured to loose weight and also change her stage persona by becoming "cuter". It wasn't a nonsensical guess, it actually fit in the way they came back with a cute concept (may I remind you how fans and non-fans questioned the drastical change in image and sound Shampoo was).

And now, regarding Avex's:

I know everyone will forever have its own theories, but avex has no say in those groups they don't directly manage. As a label, the only thing they can interfere with is them achieving the releases stated by contract and the songs they are going to release.

I remember an angry tweet about it, from someone claiming her uncle worked in avex and was fed up with people assuming it was their say the Kaeun's issue (and even Bekah's graduation). Honestly, in both cases, the Japanese staff's announcements sounded too surprised by it. They even appologized to fans whom were expecting AS to debut with Bekah in the line-up. As for Kaeun, it was the addition to happen and they probably chose her over Nicole because Kaeun had the skills needed to promote in Japanese (and is the only market they can always get enough money, even being in the niche they are).

I am saying this because people always assume any act under avex' label is under their full control (see it usually on E-Girls' PV's comments and such) and avex as a whole group, have different divisions. The label is the label, the management company is the management company.

I've seen similar statements regarding how BRIGHT didn't join E-Girls' and that avex could've make that happen. When they weren't in the same company at all, and NO, avex can't make things like this happen unless you are managed by their management division. The same way they could do nothing to keep Tohoshinki as a 5member group, once the contract with all five of them was over because they were under SM's threat of causing them trouble (and they had more acts from SM signed under their label), and it happened the same when they attempted to sign JYJ into the label.

avex surely do a lot of things wrong as a management and as a label they can also half-arse your promotions (group Da-iCE requested to switch labels because their debut kept being delayed. Ironically, they are an avex management group, but the record label division was focusing on promoting and launching other acts at the time, so they asked for it, went to Universal and everything went pretty well for them. They are an avex act, under a different recording label. Managament =/= Record Label).

They have loads of acts originated from the academy and under their management and pay them less attention than acts that are from other companies. Probably, because their own acts aren't subjected to those determined releases' contracts like other companies acts (BoA had to keep releasing to fullfill her contract with them while she was M.I.A. in Korea and flopping hard in the US).

Nowadays, the only duties Pledis' have with avex is to fullfill the releases they may state by contract and keep their Japanese fanclub active (which requires keep doing activities there).
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:20 pm

OKDR wrote:Kahi did explain in twitter that she was sad, because she specifically hand-picked Bekah. She had a series of tweets back then that were pretty depressing to read. She seemed disappointed (not with Bekah) on how the things had ended. And by "the things" I am talking about the fact Bekah had got several months out of the group to re-consider her graduation.
@OKDR, I remember Kahi's sad tweets but when you said "that thing" previously, I thought you mean the entire Bekah graduation incident but now you're saying when you previously said,
OKDR wrote:and she was already pissed at how the whole Bekah thing had went
you mean that Kahi was angry that Bekah had got several months out of the group to re-consider her graduation...that doesn't sound right I need proof.


OKDR wrote:The second thing we know, is how Bekah opened herself on her social media, explaining that she had been looked down at Pledis and had been pressured to "change". Back in the day, Korean fans disliked Bekah and called her fat.
@OKDR so many fans know about Bekah's "a little honestly" Tumblr post but I have yet to see a single fan with the comprehension and reading skill to read to interpret it properly. To clear things up,
-  Bekah never explained that she had been looked down by Pledis.
- Bekah never said had been pressured to "change" although she say that she was told she wasn't good enough.
No one actually knows who caused Bekah to leave but from what I've gathered...it was Avex, Pledis knows how talented Bekah is as her talents was effectively utilise in After School songs and performances and it was her talents that contributed to After School's uniqueness. It doesn't seem likely that Pledis will tell Bekah that she isn't good enough and that she didn't quite meet their standards. Avex on the other hand...given the way they promote After School, it's clear that they don't understand the dynamics of the group or what the group was about and they certainly don't care(which is why I h8 them so much) and from what I've seen from the way Avex promotes After School they wouldn't understand Bekah's importance in the group. I know Bekah said in her 2013 KCON interview that she didn't leave because of After School Japanese promotions, she said she left at that point because she felt it was the right time to do it blah blah blah...all that is hard to believe when 2 years earlier she posted about how much she loved performing, how there are things she could never tell us about and how someone told her she wasn't good enough and that she didn't quite meet their standards. I think Bekah was lying in her KCON interview because "there are things she could never tell us about".

OKDR wrote:It was just an Intl' fans guess to connect those two factors and come to the conclusion that she might been pressured to loose weight and also change her stage persona by becoming "cuter". It wasn't a nonsensical guess, it actually fit in the way they came back with a cute concept (may I remind you how fans and non-fans questioned the drastical change in image and sound Shampoo was).
@OKDR I'm in no mood to write an essay on how messed up fans attempt to put pieces of After School puzzle together have been.


OKDR wrote:...avex has no say in those groups they don't directly manage. As a label, the only thing they can interfere with is them achieving the releases stated by contract and the songs they are going to release.
@OKDR That fact is that we don't know what are the details of the contract between Pledis and Avex is so fans should stop assuming...however I do what to point out that after Bekah graduated there were rumours that Avex was holding audition for new Japanese members to join After School and not long after those rumours, we find out that it was true. So there does seem to be a clause in their contract that allows Avex to think that they can add new members to the group at their will. Fan's were pretty pissed at this but at least Pledis put a stop to it.  


OKDR wrote:I remember an angry tweet about it, from someone claiming her uncle worked in avex and was fed up with people assuming it was their say the Kaeun's issue (and even Bekah's graduation). Honestly, in both cases, the Japanese staff's announcements sounded too surprised by it. They even appologized to fans whom were expecting AS to debut with Bekah in the line-up. As for Kaeun, it was the addition to happen and they probably chose her over Nicole because Kaeun had the skills needed to promote in Japanese (and is the only market they can always get enough money, even being in the niche they are).
@OKDR that's a lot of stuff I need proof for, lets start off with Avex apology to fans, if they made a public apology then surely there would have been a news article written about it or in would have shown up as a post in an After School site so this would be the easiest evident to find.

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by OKDR on Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:06 am

First comment to the "Bekah thing", when I am using it to adress how Kahi took everything at the end, what she seemed to be angry at, was the incompetence of Pledis to make her stay, but that might also imply the fact she felt pressured and hurt by the staff (Bekah).

avex's auditions notice, that I only recall seeing it posted at All-K-Pop, but I never saw anything else on the subject, and there's no real proof that Kaeun was scouted by them either.

The appology was in their official website. They posted it as a comment/message to the fans that were expecting their debut. However, there's no record of that since their news archive doesn't go further than 2013 and at the time, I didn't even had the tumblr, so no chance I re-posted that there. The official japanese staff twitter is also from July 2011, after the message was posted and once the site had a new image without Bekah in it. It seems you don't trust me reading it first hand, so I will just give up on trying to convince you that avex did appologize to fans for not debuting with 9 members after Bekah graduated.

This: https://twitter.com/OkadaRei/status/696356840062504960

is the only thing I've got saved from that time (about the Japanese site), no screencaps of the message with Bekah's graduation announcement, no tweets, nothing.

After a few weeks, they re-placed the image they had at the time as a header with a new one without Bekah and the site started being more operative with news on their upcoming debut and showcase.

After looking all over, I could only find (as decent captures, everything is Low Quality) the second image the Japanese website used to start promoting AS, once E-Young had already joined (the one they replaced later, without Bekah in it).

But I also found some post that screencapped the whole website with the image I linked first (the only one I saved from that site back then)

http://www.jpopasia.com/news/after-school-opens-japanese-official-website::5150.html

I chose this link because you can see it's from the time the collaboration with Namie Amuro was being announced. Ironically, the header image featured Bekah and not E-Young, while the PV was the complete opposite.

Then, the image that they used later is this one:

http://www.hancinema.net/girl-band-after-school-poised-for-japanese-debut-30442.html
https://kpopkollective.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/after-school-diva.jpg

They also did some promotion of their upcoming debut on newspapers and they kept highlighting the fact they were 9 members:

http://www.jpopasia.com/news/after-school-opens-japanese-official-website::5150.html
http://www.hancinema.net/girl-band-after-school-poised-for-japanese-debut-30442.html#!prettyPhoto

Back then, it looked as a way to present them as SNSD's competition in their Japanese adventure, so this would be the only remaining fact that would make you consider I am not making up that message on their Japanese website, appologizing for no bringing 9 members to debut as promised.

Regarding Bekah's tumblr post, it seems you don't trust any of us to have reading skills at all, not judgement, so I will just give up on that one too.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:36 pm

OKDR wrote:First comment to the "Bekah thing", when I am using it to adress how Kahi took everything at the end
@OKDR how can you possibly say Kahi took everything when during the Premium Party Bang Bang Bang BoY performance, Bekah's raps got given to Nana and after that Kahi shared Bekah's raps with Lizzy for other songs?

OKDR wrote:what she seemed to be angry at, was the incompetence of Pledis to make her stay
@OKDR that is a possibility but there's nothing concrete to prove it...to be honest...that was a possibility I was in favour of...I really hated Avex. I just realised that my feelings for wanting Kahi to leave After School because of Avex is that same feeling I had for wanting Yoo Ara and Yoonjo to leave Hello Venus because of Fantagio although my feelings for Kahi were stronger becaus she is my bias.

OKDR wrote:...but that might also imply the fact she felt pressured and hurt by the staff (Bekah).
@OKDR I don't understand what you mean in this sentense.

OKDR wrote:avex's auditions notice, that I only recall seeing it posted at All-K-Pop, but I never saw anything else on the subject, and there's no real proof that Kaeun was scouted by them either
@OKDR Avex's audition notice was posted in many After School sites and news site including Japanese ones...even ASDaze translated the Avex's audition notice from a Sports Seoul article although the article said it hasn't been confirmed it yet...now that I think about it I only remember Allkpop stating it as a fact...but Allkpop does have a reputation of stuffing up info...OK, I'll reserve my belief until I get some actual facts because now that I think about it...I don't trust Allkpop very much. But considering how widely reported it was at the time, if it was false I would of expected either Pledis to at least step up and say so.

OKDR wrote:The appology was in their official website. They posted it as a comment/message to the fans that were expecting their debut. However, there's no record of that since their news archive doesn't go further than 2013 and at the time, I didn't even had the tumblr, so no chance I re-posted that there. The official japanese staff twitter is also from July 2011, after the message was posted and once the site had a new image without Bekah in it. It seems you don't trust me reading it first hand, so I will just give up on trying to convince you that avex did appologize to fans for not debuting with 9 members after Bekah graduated.

This: https://twitter.com/OkadaRei/status/696356840062504960

is the only thing I've got saved from that time (about the Japanese site), no screencaps of the message with Bekah's graduation announcement, no tweets, nothing.

After a few weeks, they re-placed the image they had at the time as a header with a new one without Bekah and the site started being more operative with news on their upcoming debut and showcase.

After looking all over, I could only find (as decent captures, everything is Low Quality) the second image the Japanese website used to start promoting AS, once E-Young had already joined (the one they replaced later, without Bekah in it).

But I also found some post that screencapped the whole website with the image I linked first (the only one I saved from that site back then)

http://www.jpopasia.com/news/after-school-opens-japanese-official-website::5150.html

I chose this link because you can see it's from the time the collaboration with Namie Amuro was being announced. Ironically, the header image featured Bekah and not E-Young, while the PV was the complete opposite.

Then, the image that they used later is this one:

http://www.hancinema.net/girl-band-after-school-poised-for-japanese-debut-30442.html
https://kpopkollective.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/after-school-diva.jpg

They also did some promotion of their upcoming debut on newspapers and they kept highlighting the fact they were 9 members:

http://www.jpopasia.com/news/after-school-opens-japanese-official-website::5150.html
http://www.hancinema.net/girl-band-after-school-poised-for-japanese-debut-30442.html#!prettyPhoto

Back then, it looked as a way to present them as SNSD's competition in their Japanese adventure, so this would be the only remaining fact that would make you consider I am not making up that message on their Japanese website, appologizing for no bringing 9 members to debut as promised.
@OKDR I don't trust you, I don't trust this fandom and I don't trust myself either. I only trust evidence. Even if an apology post did exist, you may have remembered the details of the apology wrong e.g. they may have apologize to disappointed fans that Bekah won't be in the Japanese promotions but that is irrelevent to the point you were making if the appology doesn't explicitly states that Avex weren't responsible for Bekah's graduation. These sources that you've shown me does look like Avex intended to promote After School with Bekah but even so, what I said was that it was my theory that Avex was responsible for Bekah's gradduation, I never said that Avex intended to promote After School with 8 members(i.e. kick Bekah out). Bekah indicated that the cause for her graduation was that she was told she wasn't good enough and that she didn't meet their expectations, she didn't need that kind of negativity so f*ck it and my opinion is that Avex was responsible for that cause because(as I've already explained), Pledis doesn't seem stupid enough to make those comments to Bekah because Bekah's raps are effectively utilised in After School songs and Bekahs raps contributed to the uniquness of After School songs. If Bekah had promoted with After School in their Japanese promotions, I would have eventually wanted Bekah to graduate like the way I wanted Kahi to graduate. I've seen the way Avex promotes After School, they wouldn't understand how special Bekah is. I've seen the way Pledis promotes Bekah so I know they know how special Bekah is. Like Kahi said in After School Diaries, "there's nobody like Bekah". Look at the current Kpop rappers trying to act bad arse with their squeeky nasal raps, they've got nothing on Bekah. "I'm going to break your neck so run" that was was Bekah, "Crisp clean original new, quality is what we give to you" that was Bekah. Is not just the raps, the way she performs them on stage is unmatched by any of the other members, there is no way Pledis is stupid enough to say those things to Bekah given her contributions to After School.

OKDR wrote:Regarding Bekah's tumblr post, it seems you don't trust any of us to have reading skills at all, not judgement, so I will just give up on that one too.
@OKDR Look at Bekah's "a little honestly" Tumblr post, I've posted it at http://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t3-bekah and tell me where Bekah explicitly mentions "Pledis". This is not a matter of trust, it's a fact that you guys are either not reading it right or you're just believing whatever you want...or you've rememeber what she said wrong.

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by OKDR on Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:49 am

You completely misenderstood the meaning of "took everything" that is all I have to say. LOL I meant "the way she took how everything was going aka her reactions towards the situation reflected on her comments in social media"

Bekah probably decided to leave because she felt hurt and pressured, so Kahi might also taken that badly. That they couldn't make Bekah stay, after she herself hand picked that member.

The Avex notice was never confirmed. The origin (I searched for it for 3 hours yesterday) was the same news statement some news agency or blog wrote, putting together Pledis' piece about Bekah's graduation (and exactly how they had communicated) and the fact they (supposedly, as it was never officially confirmed on any avex site) asked avex about the graduation and the label talked about holding auditions. Is the same piece all over the internet, in Japanese too. But all fail to actually confirm this was actually happening (yes,some even added it hadn't been officially confirmed, others took Pledis silence on the matter as a yes).

And last, I am entitled to make my own conclusions, it seems you can't even respect that. You surely make yours, but you just get angry at anyone getting a different reading than yours. So I'll just stop here. Is usually pointless to discuss like this.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:48 pm

OKDR wrote:You completely misenderstood the meaning of "took everything" that is all I have to say. LOL I meant "the way she took how everything was going aka her reactions towards the situation reflected on her comments in social media"
@OKDR oh good, I wasn't looking forward to debating you  again about Kahi taking Bekah's lines.


OKDR wrote:And last, I am entitled to make my own conclusions, it seems you can't even respect that. You surely make yours, but you just get angry at anyone getting a different reading than yours. So I'll just stop here. Is usually pointless to discuss like this.
@OKDR I respect your opinion, what I have problems with is fans like you making a statement like,

"The second thing we know, is how Bekah opened herself on her social media, explaining that she had been looked down at Pledis and had been pressured to 'change'."

Bekah never opened herself on SNS explaining how she has been looked down on by Pledis and if you were making reference to Bekah's "a little honestly" Tumblr post, Bekah never state's who was looking down on her in her post so for you to say it was Pledis, you are asserting your opinions as facts and that's my contention.  Ideally, I'll like to get back to how things were back in 2009 to 2011 when I couldn't give a damn about the things fans say but the circumstances have change and now I'm making it my personal duty to point out the BS fans are saying. It's bad enough that the older fans know crap all After School, I don't want the older fans to be spreading their BS to the newer fans...at the end of the day, nothing I say really matters does it...this fandom will believe whatever they want regardless of the facts. It was clearly pointless to discuss this when I told you to tell me where in Bekah's "a little honestly" post did Bekah explicitly mentions Pledis but instead of telling me she never explicitly mentions Pledis and it was just your opinion or explain how you came to that conclusion, you just told me it was pointless to discuss it with me because of my what I though of your literacy skill...and now you're doing the same thing except you're this time you're saying I'm getting angry because you have a different opinion...just to be very clear, I'm annoyed because you're stating your opinion as a fact, not because you have a different opinion to my one.

...hang on, when you said "...she had been looked down at Pledis..." I thought you misspoke and meant to say "...she had been looked down by Pledis..." and since you've never corrected me on this from the previous posts, I've been assuming what I thought was correct and that's what's I've been arguing against.

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by OKDR on Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:45 pm

Well Adam, I never corrected you, because you read it your own way, and you have the right to interpret itlike that too. She never said who, but I do interpret she was treated that way while being there. My guess was always the media,by the way how netizens usually get too much power on things like bashing celebrities and obtaining results. When you're been told you ain't good enough, you surely are pressured to change. You may not conceal, but someone is indeed pressuring you to become what they like. If that shouldn't be a fact, then I am sorry to imply it on her message. That is howI interpreted it.

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:11 am

OKDR wrote:Well Adam, I never corrected you, because you read it your own way, and you have the right to interpret itlike that too.
@OKDR, I do have the rights interpret what you says as I like but for a meaningful discussion to take place I need to understand what you are talking about so if I've miss interpreted what you have said then I need to be corrected.

OKDR wrote:She never said who, but I do interpret she was treated that way while being there. My guess was always the media,by the way how netizens usually get too much power on things like bashing celebrities and obtaining results. When you're been told you ain't good enough, you surely are pressured to change. You may not conceal, but someone is indeed pressuring you to become what they like.
@OKDR hmm...the media causing Bekah to graduate...I don't think that is the case. It's the part of Bekah's "a little honestly" post where she mentions  about facing the consequences of being taken advantage of that makes me think that it's not the media because I don't think the media took advantage of her(was there ever any news articles about netizens hating on Bekah for how she looks?) and she also said there are things she could never explain and I don't think explaining that she was pressured by the media and netizens to change would be that hard to explain.

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by intrepid on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:30 pm

The music chart gaon hasn’t yet updated probably because of New Year celebrations so no album information today.

On YouTube Adore U has 7,691,341 views an increase of 137,375 views in a week or 19,625 average views a day while MANSAE now has 8,769,546 views an increase of 239,594 views in a week which averages out at 34,227 views a day while the new collaboration single Q&A has 986,350 views an increase of 33,749 views in a week or 4,821 average views a day on SEVENTEEN’s channel and on 1theK it now has 2,755,165 views an increase of 156,407 views in a week or 22,343 average views a day.

On Mnets official YouTube channel for the show Produce 101 the Pledis Trainees Bang performance is still the third most watched video behind Jellyfish and JYP, it now has 412,853 views so far an increase of 98,627 views since last week.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:18 pm

cheers  Yay it's Friday, in a couple of more hours I'll get to see Kahi on Produce 101 Very Happy. Tbh, I originally started watching Produce 101 because of Kahi and I don't really stan the pledis trainees(although I do read up on them from time to time) but I've started watching the show because of the Pledis girls as well. If you're only watching their performance clips you're missing out on a lot and I highly recommend you watch the actual show if you have time as you'll be pleasantly surprise by the amount of talent Pledis still have up their sleeves. These are talents that could one day join After School...actually I only want Junghyeon (a.k.a do re mi fa sol la Si-yeon) to join After School for now.
cheers


...got side tracked...where was I? Oh yes, from episode 3 last week we found that that Siyeon can sing...and sing really well Very Happy

All the pledis trainees on episode on episode 3 did really well and had high ranking vocal positions in their respective teams. Siyeon was the main vocalist for her team and she nail the high notes and I think Pinking, Kyungwon and Eunwoo all got the position below the main vocalist.

I think the position below the main vocalist position is the 1st sub vocal(and the position below that is 2nd sub vocal and so on all the way to 4th sub vocalist) because when Siyeon lost the main vocal battle she was very happy to get the 1st sub vocal position,


...when I said Siyeon "lost" I meant "not win until justice prevailed" because Siyeon was better than Taeha and really should have won from the start.
.
I can't read hangul but from Siyeon's words I think it's pretty obvious now, the first column is the vocal positions and the first row is the main vocalists which is why Siyeon was there and I think I'm right when I previously said that I think Pinky is in the position belong the main vocalist(i.e. 1st sub vocalist).


Today's episode should be very interesting to watch, we didn't see the results for the group battle between Kyungwon's team and Eunwoo's team last week so the results should be shown today. I think Kyungwon's team should win because they had better vocals and better choreography and a stronger performance. Although when the two teams were formed people believe that Eunwoo's team would win because it was deliberately setup to have  popular members with existing fanbases...I don't think popularity matters at this point considering how many times Chanmi(Eunwoo's teams main vocalist) has messed up. It's not just  Kyungwon's team and Eunwoo's teams that's battling each other, Kyungwon and Eunwoo are  directly battling against each other as well as they both hold the same positions in their respective teams...this should be interesting. Vocally, they about the same but I think Kyungwon should win because she was the stronger dancer between the two them and  when Eunwoo did the adlib that Chanmi was suppose to do, Eunwoo did it in 2 breaths while it was suppose to be done in one.

I'm looking forward to seeing Yebin and Minkyeong's performance. I saw the videos from their individual cam on Mnet and they did pretty good. Yebin was a bit nasal but it worked for her, she has a strong clean voice and I think she was the strongest dancer in that group.

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:47 am

Just finished watching ep 4. of Produce 101 and I made some major mistakes...it turns out that popularity does win in the end and Eunwoo's team did win and I think Kyungwon and Eunwoo were 4th sub vocalists...that doesn't seem right...

After watching ep 2 and finding out that the trainees were going to do Ah I really wanted to see it, then I saw the video's of the Ah performances that Mnet uploaded...the only reason why I even bother to watch the Ah performances again today was to find out how Kahi could have possibly even let such acts of atrocity take place. Ah was her debut song and it was the song that brought me to After School and so I'm very sure the song is as special to her as it is to me so I wanted to know what happened...and if Kahi had a hand in making those Ah performances the way they were then I would have held it against her...but when she saw them perform it, Kahi was going to flip out at them as I was so I take it that Kahi didn't endorse those acts of blasphemy. I thought Nayoung's teams was bad but her opponents team was even worst, never in all my years of being an After School fan had I conceive the idea of a cute version of Ah...
I'm happy that Nayoung got 160 points making her place 3rd over all but I don't think she deserved it, I think her singing and dancing in that Ah performance was amongst the weakest compared to the rest of the other Pledis trainees.

At least we got to see Yebin and Minkyeong own the stage.
The overall individual rankings are:
3) Nayoung
7) Minkyeong
9) Yebin
10) Pinky
11) Siyeon
57) Eunwoo
88) Kyungwon

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by intrepid on Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:40 pm

For the period 31/01/16 - 06/02/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ dropped one place to #14 in the Album Chart while ’17 CARAT’ is no longer in the chart.

For the month of January SEVENTEEN’s 2nd Mini Album `BOYS BE` rose one place for the month to #21 selling an additional 3790 albums while SEVENTEEN’s 1st Mini Album `17 CARAT` dropped two places to #41 selling an additional 1709 albums.

122 784 + 3790 = 126 574

52 738 + 1709 = 54 447

Total album sales 126 574 + 54 447 = 181 021
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by OKDR on Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:53 am

I am confused about Produce 101. I don't know where we are supposed to vote LOL. I did it the first time, but now it doesn't let me anymore.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by OKDR on Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:00 am

For the cuts I've seen, the first group wasn't as terrible as the second with AH. At least the vocals were decent, the intro was even good, I'd say. The key point for that group was probably the age factor or showing a more mature image, although I can say they tried to put more attitude than the second group. That one was embarrassing to watch.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by intrepid on Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:09 am

OKDR wrote:I am confused about Produce 101. I don't know where we are supposed to vote LOL. I did it the first time, but now it doesn't let me anymore.

You can’t vote at the moment and it’s probably because after the last episode a lot of the girls are going to be cut, however because “that episode” hasn’t yet aired they can’t pull their photos without “spoiling” the upcoming drama so stay tuned.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:18 am

Kahi didn't make an appearance on Produce 101 last night so that was disappointing but it was still a very interesting episode. Any Pledis girls supporters that saw ep. 4 last week would have been very concern that Kyungwon would have been eliminate this week considering how low her score was in the group battle but thankfully none of the Pledis girls got eliminated cheers

4. Pinky
18. Eunwoo
24. Nayoung
26. Siyeon
28. Yebin
31. Kyungwon
42. Minkyeong

Also, in the visual ranking, Pinky was voted #1 by the other participants and Siyeon was voted #7 Very Happy

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by intrepid on Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:10 am

(This information was gathered last Thursday I just forgot to post it.)

For the period 07/02/16 - 13/02/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ dropped three places to #17 in the Album Chart.

On YouTube Manae now has 9,025, 858 views while Adore U now has 7,836,432 views and Q&A has 1,020,022 views on their channel while on 1thek it has 2, 925,887 views.
NU'EST comeback song OVERCOME has 241,584 views on the 1thek channel and 94, 856 views on their channel.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by intrepid on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:45 am

For the period 14/02/16 - 20/02/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ rose one place to #16 in the Album Chart while their 1st mini album ’17 CARAT’ returned to the chart at #9, Nu’est’s latest album ‘Q is’ debut at #5 in the chart.

On YouTube Manae now has 9,304,534 views while Adore U now has 7,995,781 views and Q&A has 1,054,390 views on their channel while on 1thek it has 3,035,356 views.
NU'EST comeback song OVERCOME has 888,578 views on the 1thek channel and 168,475 views on their channel.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by OKDR on Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:05 am

I just hope sells pay off, because right now it's harder for NU'EST to win any mutizen. Is not their fandom isn't trying, is more the fact they're against stronger fandoms with more people to help get the desired results on searchs, sells, and more into all the different shows. Last week, trying to stream from Tudou was a pain (it kept lagging), but even when we do vote every day, etc. I realize those other acts (WINNER, SS' sub-unit, Taemin) have larger fandoms and even stronger in these aspects.

I even suspect that, despite killing the charts, an act like MAMAMOO will need more to grab a mutizen, playing against the same acts.

For the record, despite wanting to support more than just NU'EST (my long awaited Brave Girls' re-vamped, MAMAMOO came back and I'd love to see Rainbow get at least one mutizen once, and I don't even mention Ladies' Code, I'd still support them even if nothing bad had happened to them, cause I love them from their debut) I kept my efforts to NU'EST's, because I trully believe if we foucs, we can at least keep them in a relevant place, just like SEVENTEEN keeps being relevant despite other agencies' rookies got awards way before them.

Regarding SEVENTEEN's first album, I recall now that I tried to order it last fall from YesAsia, but I had to cancell it because they had run out of supplies. Which means is still on high demand. Isn't it?

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by OKDR on Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:54 am

So, Pledis' Girls covered NU'EST's OVERCOME, trully to get some props for both sides (I guess) and some comments just made me mad, I exploded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_1SHFwNs4o&feature=youtu.be

I think this can be categorized on the "Ingrates" department, just like Adam applied the word to the way Playgirlz or some Playgirlz took After School and Pledis for granted.

I was also relieved to see, some fans tried to put common sense on the ones that even asked to vote the video down.

This rotten apples (yes, I trully believe they hurt the fandom more than protect it, even if they believe they do) only bring distrust among Pledis' acts fandoms and are part of the reason why none of them will ever grab a mutizen again. They surely can't get in their minds that without help, their own fandom (not even Carats) is never enough opposed to other groups and agencies.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by intrepid on Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:35 pm

For the period 21/02/16 - 27/02/16 SEVENTEEN’s ‘BOYS BE’ dropped 2 places to #18 in the Album Chart while their 1st mini album ’17 CARAT’ dropped 29 places to #38, Nu’est’s album ‘Q is’ dropped 10 places to #15 in the chart.

On YouTube SEVENTEEN’s Manae now has 9,578,663 views while Adore U now has 8,151,312 views and Q&A has 1,086,951 views on their channel while on 1thek it has 3,177,333 views.
NU'EST comeback song OVERCOME has 1,184,350 views on the 1thek channel and 197,411 views on their channel.
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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:14 pm

I'm currently watching Ep 6. of Produce 101 right now and cheers Siyeon won her vocal battle.


In episode 6 I've learnt that Siyeon and I share some very similar characteristics...depending how you look at it, it could be a good thing or a bad thing. From the way she strongly disagrees with Haein(her group leader) about not wanting to perform the song like GFriend, it's shown she is strongly opinionated which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's good that she doesn't shy away from sticking up for her opinions and in the end she was right and the PD even agreed with her but the ways she disagrees with Haein(her leader and unnie) and the tension that it has caused in  her group isn't going to make her look good...still SIYEON FIGHTING!!!!

P.S I feel sorry for Haein, I thought her performance and the confidence she exude from her previous group battle should have gave her previous group the win in episode 4 and now she's blaming herself for letting her team down because all her previous team mates were elimitated.

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Re: [Discussion]General musings, speculations & observations thread

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:17 pm

Overall rankings for Pledis Girls participating in Produce 101 episode 6 vocal battle.

5) Eunwoo
6) Siyeon
13) Minkyung
23) Kyungwon



In a couple of more hours we'll get to see how Pinky and Nayoung did in their dance battle and Yubin in her rap battle Very Happy

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