[DISCUSSION] Selfish fans damaging After School's success

There are fans that will attack(through h8 comments, propaganda etc) an After School member for the amount of lines they receive in songs or the amount of spotlight they receive on stage because they feel their biases or other members aren't given enough attention. Reason and rationality gets thrown out the window and gets replaced with jealousy and h8. When the situation is left to silently grow out of control the member becomes buried under a mountain of misunderstandings and lies which can effectively ruin that members career.

It's seems like I'm only talking about Kahi here but I'm not. From what I've seen when a member gets given a chance stand out or rise to greatness this fandom will be the ones to drag them down. Kahi is a fine example of a member whose career fans have ruined however she wasn't the only one to be hated for receiving a significant portion lines in songs. I remember Raina in the past was hated because of the amount of lines she got in songs and also because fans felt she had replaced Jung Ah as the main vocalist.

Am I sad that Raina got given so much lines and became the main vocalist ahead of Jung Ah? Yes I am. Am I annoyed that Raina took Jung Ah's parts in Diva. HELL YES!!!!! Does Raina deserve to be hated? NO, read https://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t138-discussion-do-fans-have-proof-kahi-is-guilty-of-being-a-selfish-line-hogger-on-a-power-trip for how ridiculous it is for hating a member just because of the line distribution in songs.

I know there's kinda like an anti Kahi fan club thing going on in this fandom so is there also like an anti fan club for Raina as well or did Raina escape most of the h8 because of how much she was ignored over these past years? I'm asking because I've got plans for After School's next comeback and one of them involves Raina.

Guys, I understand that it's annoying/disappointing when one member gets so much lines in a song and others or your bias get so little. Whether the members deserves those lines is another question but you have the rights to be disappointed. However to actually h8 on a member for the amount of lines they get in a song is unwarranted and doing so is selfish.

I think you're overreacting tbh. Just because we don't like Kahi as much as you do that doesn't make us anti fans. And wanting everyone else to love your bias is also very selfish.

That aside, now that Kahis gone most of the lines go to Raina and I'm okay with that because uhm, she's the main vocal. Yeah. Nowadays there isn't really any h8 on Raina so uh yeah I don't really get what you're trying to discuss aside from the whole Kahi thing.

wowous wrote:I think you're overreacting tbh. Just because we don't like Kahi as much as you do that doesn't make us anti fans.

I don't think I'm over reacting considering the things fans have said about Kahi and given the way her career is. Some of you guys are just misinformed about Kahi and some of you guys are deliberately attacking Kahi, the ones deliberately attacking Kahi are anti fans.

wowous wrote:And wanting everyone else to love your bias is also very selfish.

You've mistaken, I'm not being selfish and I am certainly not trying to get everyone to love my  biases. I'm pretty sure I've written more about Raina than any other member on this forum. Prior to joining this forum I was very actively trying to promote Raina and E-young. My biases aren't even Raina or E-young so saying I'm being selfish by wanting everyone else to love my biases is a load of rubbish. I don't mention E-young much in this forum because E-young's case is that she's under rated among non AS fans, AS fans know how awesome E-young is so there no need for me to do anything for E-young here. My focus has been on Kahi and Raina on this forum is because they are the 2 most misunderstood members. I'm not trying to get you or anyone else to like Kahi, what I've been doing is defending her because fans are unfairly attacking her.

wowous wrote:That aside, now that Kah is gone most of the lines go to Raina and I'm okay with that because uhm, she's the main vocal. Yeah. Nowadays there isn't really any love on Raina so uh yeah I don't really get what you're trying to discuss aside from the whole Kahi thing.

It's good to know that you're OK with most of the lines going to Raina. I've been wondering if Raina is given a chance to rise and become much more successful will the rest of this fandom drag her down...given the history of this fandom I'm pretty sure they will. Part of what gave rise to this topic is that I've got plans for this fandom to help Raina no longer feel that she's ignored and become more successful e.g. have more TV appearances (like Nana after getting world #2) and get her own solo album like she mentioned in her The Star interview e.t.c. What I'm concern about is that because this fandom is so messed up such attempts to help Raina will result in jealousy from some fan and Raina will receive more h8. Raina has been ignored way too much which happens to be a good thing because it appears she has escaped the h8 fans once had for her. However it's not right that after all Raina has done for After School she doesn't get the recognition she deserves. I want to start off with doing something as simple as proposing a project for AS next comeback where fan lower the support for their biases and increase their support for Raina just to let her know Playgirlz/Playboyz will no longer ignore her any more but considering how messed up this fandom is I've been very reluctant to do it.

Initially what started this topic is jungHi4ever's "Why are you trying to find a bullying problem in After School" tumblr post. I don't know about AS members bullying each other but I know that fans have been bullying AS members. Jealous fans bully After School member if the feel other members deserve more attention. It's happening to Kahi and it's happened to Raina in the past. I'm not trying to discuss the whole Kahi thing, there's a separate thread for that. What I'm trying to discuss is how selfish fans bullying After School members is damaging After School's success. This problem didn't go away when Kahi graduated because Kahi is still very much apart of After School. This problem didn't go away because Raina is now ignored it just subsided( and Raina being ignored by this fandom is really a problem, not a solution). The problem isn't just restricted to Kahi and Raina. As soon as a member get put in the lime light there's bound to be selfish fans who's going to h8 on that member and bring them down. If Raina does start getting more attention, more TV appearances and her own solo album I'm very sure the problem will resurface because that's how messed up this fandom is.

After reading these posts I feel there is a general misunderstanding about what the role of “group leader” is and the power they wield.

First off let me say while I understand someone may have a bias in the group I simply cannot comprehend that lending to dissing another member for any reason, I find such behaviour abhorrent and uncalled for, secondly just because Kahi was instrumental in forming After School and was its former leader doesn’t mean she had the power some of these posts are alluding to.

While I don’t claim to be an expert my introduction into K-pop has also introduced me to Korean culture which I have found both intriguing and very different to western culture and has caused me to misunderstand some things I watched when viewing Korean content from an outside context, now that I’m a little more familiar with it I now look at things very differently.

A K-pop group is formed by a company to make money for that company, from our point of view think of the group as indentured servants; they are selected and trained, housed and fed by the company which sinks a considerable amount of serious money into them in order to make a profit some point often years down the track.
They don’t turn over control to the “leader” to make the serious decisions, that solely rests with the company; they may consult with the leader or the members but that’s about it.
The leader’s role is one of responsibility, they have to make sure the other members are where they are supposed to be and doing what they are supposed to be doing, if they aren’t the leader is to blame, this ties into the cultural aspect as in Korea depending on age and position everyone knows their place and role and their responsibilities; if Kahi was hard it was expected of her to be hard, not only from her bosses but also by the other members, this is a cultural thing, you may not like/understand/agree but it’s how things work there.
Who gets to sing what line and what position they are placed or how much camera time they get is certainly NOT up to the leader, that come from the managers and they alone decide that; and if you don’t believe me then I will include a BBC documentary which isn’t the usual white wash fan service the K-pop companies usually put out to show how great being in a group is, it concerns 9Muses but I think you’ll get the idea, also pay attention to the leader and what happens to her when she fails in her responsibilities.

intrepid wrote:First off let me say while I understand someone may have a bias in the group I simply cannot comprehend that lending to dissing another member for any reason, I find such behaviour abhorrent and uncalled for

abhorrent? that's a nice way of putting how I feel about this fandom. Guys, I just want to make clear. I use the terms "fans" and "fandom" in a lot of negative contexts but I'm not talking about all fans and the entire fandom, just what I perceive as the general fandom. I know there are some very good fans out there.

intrepid wrote:secondly just because Kahi was instrumental in forming After School and was its former leader doesn’t mean she had the power some of these posts are alluding to.

While I don’t claim to be an expert my introduction into K-pop has also introduced me to Korean culture which I have found both intriguing and very different to western culture and has caused me to misunderstand some things I watched when viewing Korean content from an outside context, now that I’m a little more familiar with it I now look at things very differently.

A K-pop group is formed by a company to make money for that company, from our point of view think of the group as indentured servants; they are selected and trained, housed and fed by the company which sinks a considerable amount of serious money into them in order to make a profit some point often years down the track.
They don’t turn over control to the “leader” to make the serious decisions, that solely rests with the company; they may consult with the leader or the members but that’s about it.
The leader’s role is one of responsibility, they have to make sure the other members are where they are supposed to be and doing what they are supposed to be doing, if they aren’t the leader is to blame, this ties into the cultural aspect as in Korea depending on age and position everyone knows their place and role and their responsibilities; if Kahi was hard it was expected of her to be hard, not only from her bosses but also by the other members, this is a cultural thing, you may not like/understand/agree but it’s how things work there.
Who gets to sing what line and what position they are placed or how much camera time they get is certainly NOT up to the leader, that come from the managers and they alone decide that; and if you don’t believe me then I will include a BBC documentary which isn’t the usual white wash fan service the K-pop companies usually put out to show how great being in a group is, it concerns 9Muses but I think you’ll get the idea, also pay attention to the leader and what happens to her when she fails in her responsibilities.

@intrepid, thanks for defending Kahi. Also I want to add that the song producers are also responsible for the line distributions which can be confirmed from when Brave Brothers were on KBS’ Win Win see "Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?" topic for more info. I would have like to see you defend Kahi in that topic with me. Feeling kind of lonely there doing it all by myself but I'm glad you've done it here anyway

Guys, this topic is about selfish fans ruining After School's success by hating on AS members because they are given more attention(e.g. through lines in songs, promotions, TV appearances e.t.c). If you feel a need to defend( or attack depending which side you are on) Kahi's integrity because of accusations that she's a selfish line hogger on a power trip please do so at this topic Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?.

Wow, I must have been living under a rock or been to caught up on BabyMetal to know any of this was going on.

I'm just speaking for myself, but to me After School, the group, comes before my bias. So I would never h8 on another member for any reason. I must admit thou when I first started getting into AS, there was a time I was not really fan of Uee. Because I didn't understand at the time why she would miss performances yet have more activity then other members (mainly Lizzy). That all change when, as I consider, I become a Playboyz. It was just a misunderstanding on my part. Since then, I've tried to watch all of Uee's dramas and variety shows, as well as all of the members past and present.

With that said I have no problem with PlayboyzAdam idea for AS next comeback, in fact I think we should definitely do it.

PlayboyzAdam wrote: I want to start off with doing something as simple as proposing a project for AS next comeback where fan lower the support for their biases and increase their support for Raina just to let her know Playgirlz/Playboyz will no longer ignore her any more.

I believe that its a great idea, not just for Raina, but for other members who might feel ignored. It would be a great opportunity to show, even thou they might now be our bias, they are still loved and appreciated by us.

In all Honestly without ALL the members of After School this fandom wouldn't exist.

Gokoulssj wrote:I'm just speaking for myself, but to me After School, the group, comes before my bias. So I would never h8 on another member for any reason.

  Yay, another sane fan. Fans like you help restore my faith in this fandom because as the fandom is right now...well you've seen my comments about what I think of this fandom.

Gokoulssj wrote:With that said I have no problem with PlayboyzAdam idea for AS next comeback, in fact I think we should definitely do it.

I'll do it for the next AS comeback, it's simple. Just do stuff like post comments or write more tweets supporting Raina than you would normally do for your bias. Tell Raina(preferable in Korean but I'm going to do it both in English and Korean) that she looks cute, pretty, her performance was awesome stuff like that. Guys, just to be clear I'm not telling you to stop cheering for your biases, I'm just telling you guys to increase support for Raina and lower it for your bias. Feels a bit like you're betraying your bias doesn't it...oh well can't be helped, but if fans think of the contributions Raina has given to AS throughout these years vs the amount of recognition and attention she gets you'll see this is the right thing to do. I'm still not sure about proposing it as an ASDaze official project, I don't want jealous fans hating on Raina or hating on ASDaze for proposing what may seem like an unfair project to the other members. But now this idea has been brought up and these issues of selfishness has been raised. I'm going to give it a bit more time for fans to wrap their heads around the idea and issues before I push for it as an ASDaze official project in the future, but this isn't stopping fans from doing it own their own without the coordination of ASDaze. Even with ASDaze's backing I don't think it's going to be successful right now(prove me wrong guys).

Gokoulssj wrote:I believe that its a great idea, not just for Raina, but for other members who might feel ignored. It would be a great opportunity to show, even thou they might now be our bias, they are still loved and appreciated by us.

Awesome, someone else that envisions the same support I want the fandom to give for After School

In case anyone is expecting me to propose certain projects and wondering why I haven't propose them yet, it's because is all about timing and the attitude of this fandom. But that's not stopping other fans from proposing and discussing the projects.

Honestly, the best song to have an even line distribution among all the members is "AH" and their manager doesn't even properly distribute the lines for all the members to sing when it comes to all 8 singing that song.

I would say it was around the "Bang!" era when I started noticing that Kahi and Raina were getting way too many lines (but this could also be that there could have been an evenly spread out amount of line distribution but Lizzy (who was debuting at the time) had to share her only line in the song anyway), this did not initially bother me per say since I did understand their titles, but I did wish that the line distribution was organized better.

It wasn't until Flashback that I realized that Nana, Lizzy and Raina get WAY too much screen time and line distribution. It is supposed to be "AFTER SCHOOL" and NOT "Orange Caramel Featuring four other girls" which that only started making me a little disappointed in the management of the group. So I dont blame the girls per say, I blame the management, because at the end of the day, it is the management who does all this work and is making these unfair choices and causing such a riff among fans.

mitsuhoney wrote:Honestly, the best song to have an even line distribution among all the members is "AH" and their manager doesn't even properly distribute the lines for all the members to sing when it comes to all 8 singing that song.

Why does Ah need even lines distribution and what's wrong with the line distribution in Ah, I think it sounds great(still needs Bekah though)?

mitsuhoney wrote:It wasn't until Flashback that I realized that Nana, Lizzy and Raina get WAY too much screen time and line distribution. It is supposed to be "AFTER SCHOOL" and NOT "Orange Caramel Featuring four other girls" which that only started making me a little disappointed in the management of the group. So I dont blame the girls per say, I blame the management, because at the end of the day, it is the management who does all this work and is making these unfair choices and causing such a riff among fans.

@mitsuhoney, Did you leave out Jung Ah because she's your bias? Jung ah had the second most solo lines in Flash Back and she gets the next most lines after Raina so if you were going to put it that way then it's really Orange Caramel+Jung Ah featuring 4 other girls. But you know what? Orange Caramel+Jung Ah featuring 4 other girls IS AFTER SCHOOL. You don't blame the girls per se?....fans shouldn't be blaming the girls or Pledis at all. I'm the one causing the riff among fans. If I don't open my mouth this wouldn't have been an issue. Pledis isn't the ones being unfair, lines are given to the ones that best suits those lines...seems fair to me. The fans are the ones being unfair, they know crap all about what's going on and they h8 on After School members and Pledis. Should Pledis evenly distribute the lines just to satisfy the ego of fans? I don't think so. Pledis is doing what they can to provide fans with quality products. Pledis aren't the ones hating on After School members, the fans are. The egotism of some fans is unbelievable,  fans are the ones messing up After School's success, hating on After School members and then they have they nerve of blaming it on Pledis.

This riff among fans will go away when fans learn to appreciate all the contributions of the After School members no matter how much or how little it might be. Oh...and when a member get's ranked #2 in the world fans should be proud instead of like, "the ranking was a joke my bias looks way better".

Btw, Brave Brothers have shown that the producers determine who sings what lines but I'm still saying Pledis here because they are ultimately responsible for After School.

The general misconception about K-pop groups is that everyone in it is there to sing; this comes from a Western understanding of how a pop group is supposed to function.

We think singing first, maybe dancing second and then looks and all the group has to do is sing and sing well, but a k-pop group functions on an entirely different level, popularity is key to success and that doesn’t all come from those in the group that sing, it comes from leveraging the different talents from different members to cover all aspects of the media available to create a perfect storm of perpetual motion popularity.

When it comes to singing those that sing the best get the lions’ share of the lines, the prettiest members are the ones that spend the most time up front, the rest “are” just fill when it comes to singing, it doesn’t seem fair but from a business model stand point it’s what seems to work for the company so it probably won’t change.

In After School’s case members like Uie and Jooyeon are actors and are in the group more for their looks than for their singing ability; being recognised as actors but still introduced as “After School’s Uie” and “After School Jooyeon” gives focus to the group by drawing the attention and curiosity of their TV fans to seek out their non-acting activities, this also applies to Lizzy.

Nanna does the same with her modelling which Uie and Jooyeon also participate and the more popular they become in these non-K-pop related fields the more attention the group gets as a whole which leads to more interviews and CF’s/endorsements which leads to more popularity thus completing the K-pop circle of life!

You never seem to see Jungah and Raina doing solo photo shoots or CF’s, they are only involved if it’s part of the group be it Orange Caramel or AS, they are the singers and that’s pretty much all they do.

E-Young has her instrumental talents to woo people and Kaeun also models but both are still largely unknown quantities and will no doubt shine more latter down the track.

Once you understand the principle behind the business things become much clearer when it comes to how much screen time a member gets or line distribution, this isn’t about ego’s it’s about keeping the cash cow milking for all its worth!

intrepid wrote:The general misconception about K-pop groups is that everyone in it is there to sing; this comes from a Western understanding of how a pop group is supposed to function.

Yep that's true. I didn't become an After School fan for their singing abilities. If it was going to be just about singing then I wouldn't have been an After School fan. After School has a LOT more to offer.

intrepid wrote:We think singing first, maybe dancing second and then looks and all the group has to do is sing and sing well, but a k-pop group functions on an entirely different level, popularity is key to success and that doesn’t all come from those in the group that sing, it comes from leveraging the different talents from different members to cover all aspects of the media available to create a perfect storm of perpetual motion popularity.

I agree. Especially about the "popularity is key to success" part. Consider how successful the most vocally talented members in After School are(e.g. Jung Ah and Raina) and now compare how successful they are to more popular members (i.e. UEE and Nana) who are less vocally talented.

intrepid wrote:When it comes to singing those that sing the best get the lions’ share of the lines

I agree.

intrepid wrote:the prettiest members are the ones that spend the most time up front, the rest “are” just fill when it comes to singing,

I disagree. Middle position in dance formations is usually given to the leader or the main vocalist(well that's how it is in After School anyway). Raina is actually in the centre of those dance formations a lot but people just don't realise it because she gets ignored a lot.

intrepid wrote:it doesn’t seem fair but from a business model stand point it’s what seems to work for the company so it probably won’t change.

Seems fair to me and I hope it NEVER CHANGES. I don't care about whether it works or not from a business model stand point but from an entertainment stand point, if it sounds good and is it entertaining that's all I care about. Honestly, I hope there'll be most songs like "When I Fall". I love Raina's vocals and the back up harmony from the other members sound great. I'm sick of songs where they just take turns singing each part after another. Some people didn't like how Raina got so much lines in "When I Fall", I personally don't care. Raina and her backup singers sound pretty good to me.

intrepid wrote:In After School’s case members like Uie and Jooyeon are actors and are in the group more for their looks than for their singing ability; being recognised as actors but still introduced as “After School’s Uie” and “After School Jooyeon” gives focus to the group by drawing the attention and curiosity of their TV fans to seek out their non-acting activities, this also applies to Lizzy.

I know UEE brings a lot of attention to After School through her acting but I'm not sure about Juyeon and Lizzy. Do they? I don't pay much attention to k-dramas because I don't like their acting style so I'm not sure. I'll excuse Lizzy because her characters are crazy so I like the way she acts but I still don't watch her shows because I don't have the time. I pay more attention to Juyeon and Lizzy in variety shows.

intrepid wrote:You never seem to see Jungah and Raina doing solo photo shoots or CF’s, they are only involved if it’s part of the group be it Orange Caramel or AS, they are the singers and that’s pretty much all they do.

That's sad. I think Jung Ah make's a very good model.

I like how she struts down the catwalk at 0:18 to 0:30 and 5:07 to 5:22.


I don't think it is because Raina and Jung Ah are singers and that's why they don't get solo photo shoots or CF’s. I think Raina and Jung Ah don't get solo photo shoots or CF’s because they are not popular enough.

intrepid wrote:E-Young has her instrumental talents to woo people and Kaeun also models but both are still largely unknown quantities and will no doubt shine more latter down the track.

I hope so.

intrepid wrote:Once you understand the principle behind the business things become much clearer when it comes to how much screen time a member gets or line distribution, this isn’t about ego’s it’s about keeping the cash cow milking for all its worth!

There are fans that have no concern for why or how things are done even when justifications for those things are valid. I think it's fine for fans to be disappointed or annoyed that their bias or another After School member isn't getting as much lines or attention as they want but to act on those feelings and put down another After School member is inexcusable.

Who cares?
Kahi is not even in the group anymore.
Since their last Song they all had pretty good amount of lines in my opinion. And those who are trying to make After School bad are mostly not even After School fans at all.

PrinceX wrote:Who cares?
Kahi is not even in the group anymore.
Since their last Song they all had pretty good amount of lines in my opinion. And those who are trying to make After School bad are mostly not even After School fans at all.

@PrinceX firstly hi, long time no see, it's great to see you on the forum again. Second this thread isn't just about Kahi. Kahi is just one case where fans have turned against her because fans feel she gets too much lines/spot light/attention. Fans think it's justified to be hating on another member because they've get a lot to attention or lines when they think another member deserves those lines or attention more, so I'm calling fans out on their selfishness. Third, I CARE and lastly if you are talking about Flash Back read my second post in https://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t138-discussion-do-fans-have-proof-kahi-is-guilty-of-being-a-selfish-line-hogger-on-a-power-trip because the line distribution is far from being even.

Guys, I think I haven't made myself clear. THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT KAHI. Let me try again, whenever a member receives more attention, lines in songs, opportunities etc there's going to be fans that are going to h8 on that member e.g. if Raina does well for this "A midsummer night's sweetness" comeback and she gets more opportunities(e.g. TV appearances, solo photo shoots, solo CF etc) and Pledis promotes her more there's bound to be fans hating on Raina. There's going to be selfish fans wanting for their bias to have the opportunities that Raina is receiving and hating on Raina because their bias are not getting it. Raina's success also help After School succeed. The purpose of this thread is to point out fan's selfishness and hopefully they'll realise that hating on another member isn't going to help their bias, it's just going to bring down After School as a whole as well as the member that they are hating.

PlayboyzAdam wrote:

PrinceX wrote:Who cares?
Kahi is not even in the group anymore.
Since their last Song they all had pretty good amount of lines in my opinion. And those who are trying to make After School bad are mostly not even After School fans at all.

@PrinceX firstly hi, long time no see, it's great to see you on the forum again. Second this thread isn't just about Kahi. Kahi is just one case where fans have turned against her because fans feel she gets too much lines/spot light/attention. Fans think it's justified to be hating on another member because they've  get a lot to attention or lines when they think another member deserves those lines or attention more, so I'm calling fans out on their selfishness. Third, I CARE and lastly if you are talking about Flash Back read my second post in https://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t138-discussion-do-fans-have-proof-kahi-is-guilty-of-being-a-selfish-line-hogger-on-a-power-trip because the line distribution is far from being even.

Guys, I think I haven't made myself clear. THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT KAHI. Let me try again, whenever a member receives more attention, lines in songs, opportunities etc there's going to be fans that are going to h8 on that member e.g. if Raina does well for this "A midsummer night's sweetness" comeback and she gets more opportunities(e.g. TV appearances, solo photo shoots, solo CF etc) and Pledis promotes her more there's bound to be fans hating on Raina. There's going to be selfish fans wanting for their bias to have the opportunities that Raina is receiving and hating on Raina because their bias are not getting it. Raina's success also help After School succeed. The purpose of this thread is to point out fan's selfishness and hopefully they'll realise that hating on another member isn't going to help their bias, it's just going to bring down After School as a whole as well as the member that they are hating.

Hi...