[DISCUSSION] Raina Saved After School/Pledis NOT Seventeen

Guys, this "Seventeen is saving After School/Pledis" BS is starting to get pretty annoying...you're entitle to your opinion and you can continue say it but you're about to know where I stand.

Let's do a little Math and see where Seventeen is in terms of sales. According to Gaon chart http://gaonchart.co.kr/main/section/chart/album.gaon?nationGbn=T&serviceGbn=&termGbn=month (stuff on wikipedia is wrong even though it's citing Gaon as it's source) "Boys Be" has a total of 38,002 physical sales and "17 Carat" has 44,646 physical sales. Together that adds up to 82,648 physical sales. The physical albums cost $16.99 each on YesAsia. Let's just assumes that Pledis gets the entire $16.99 for every album sold because I have no idea what how to calculate their gross profit as I don't know what Pledis' expenses are(e.g. cost of creating and distributing the albums) so Pledis has got a maximum of $16.99*82,648 = $1,404,189.52 from Seventeen right now. Back in August AMNS got a total of 98,949,473 digital sales. I'm too lazy/tired to put in the effort to find out  what is AMNS current digital sales total but it doesn't matter because I'm very sure this will ended up with Raina being the one to save Pledis not Seventeen. So from AMSN Pledis gets ($0.266/2)*98,949,473=$13,160,279.909. $0.266 is the maximum amount one AMSN digital sale gives and $0.266/2 is the maximum Pledis gets from one digital sale assuming Pledis only get half the money and the other half goes to Brand New Music. See https://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t375p150-discussionofficial-a-midsummer-night-s-sweetness-discussion-thread for more details for AMNS calculations.

Note: AMNS was a digital album only so there was no physical album sales and that's that why physical sales were not part of the calculations for AMSN. Digital sales wasn't part of Seventeens calcuations because their digital sales were not high enough to be registered in the GAON charts.

So there you have it, assuming that Pledis doesn't need to pay any expensive associated with those promotions then Seventeen makes $1,404,189.52 for Pledis while Raina(through AMSN) made $13,160,279.909 which is more than 9 times what Seventeen has earned for Pledis.

If you want some realistic looking figures than read https://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t375p150-discussionofficial-a-midsummer-night-s-sweetness-discussion-thread and you'll see that if Xbox was the one that provided the streaming services for AMSN than AMSN would have make $7,619,109.421 while if the streaming service was Rhapsody then AMSN would get $999389.6773 and when you look at these latter figure's and compare them to Seventeen unrealistic $1,404,189.52 then it's obvious that Raina would have realistically made a lot more profit for Pledis. Btw, Xbox represented the highest paying music streaming service provider out of the list while Rhapsody  was the lowest.

P.S I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO AN AGRUEMENT ABOUT HOW IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR SEVENTEEN TO MAKE $1,404,189.52 AND RAINA TO MAKE $13,160,279.909 WHEN I'VE CLEARLY STATED THAT THOSE FIGURE ARE CALCULATED BASE ON THERE NOT BEING ANY EXPENSES PLEDIS NEEDS TO PAY. BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT PLEDIS WILL INEVITABLY HAVE TO PAY PROMOTIONAL EXPENSES OF CAUSE THOSE FIGURES ARE IMPOSSIBLE!!!

According to koreaboo.com Seventeen's "Boys Be" had a total of 81,987 physical album sales and for "17 Carat" 43,147 physical sales in total. This means Seventeens total sales according to koreaboo is 125,134 and given that both albums cost $16.99 on YesAsia.com this means that Seventeen earned a maximum of $2,126,026.66(neglecting expenses) for Pledis which is still far less than the $13,160,279.909 brought in by Raina.

@intrepid, you look at the charts a lot...can you tell whether I've read the Gaon chart wrong or is koreaboo's figures wrong?

PlayboyzAdam wrote:According to koreaboo.com Seventeen's "Boys Be" had a total of 81,987 physical album sales and for "17 Carat" 43,147 physical sales in total. This means Seventeens total sales according to koreaboo is 125,134 and given that both albums cost $16.99 on YesAsia.com this means that Seventeen earned a maximum of $2,126,026.66(neglecting expenses) for Pledis which is still far less than the $13,160,279.909 brought in by Raina.

@intrepid, you look at the charts a lot...can you tell whether I've read the Gaon chart wrong or is koreaboo's figures wrong?

I believe the figures for SEVENTEEN are correct and are the official Hanteo numbers but I can’t verify because I don’t know how to navigate the Hanteo site, and Gaon won’t give the final tally for October until Thursday next week at which time I’ll post those numbers.

Also I think you have grossly overestimated what Raina earned and it’ll be far less than the figure you have given; As an example SM Entertainment’s revenue for 2014 was $246.1 million USD their Operating income was only $29.3 million USD which amounted to a final profit of only $5.1 million USD for 2014 which means for every $48.2 million USD that came into the company the company made $1 million USD clear profit.

So “if” Raina and San E made $13,000,000 USD (which I doubt) then using the same calculation 13,000,000 divided by 48 equals 270,833 clear profit, but let’s say you divide it evenly between Brand New and Pledis that makes the amount $135,416 then assuming a 60/40 split in Raina’s favour that would leave Pledis with around $54,166 net profit.

intrepid wrote:....until Thursday next week at which time I’ll post those numbers

@intrepid, thanks

intrepid wrote:Also I think you have grossly overestimated what Raina earned and it’ll be far less than the figure you have given

@intrepid, the reason why I wrote that last paragraph in my first post was to address comments like yours...yes I have grossly over estimated Raina's earning just like I have done so for Seventeen's earnings but I acknowledges and justified my reason for why I did that. Regardless of what the gross profit is, those over estimate can still be validly use to show that Raina earned more than Seventeen when given the fact that one physical sales will earn more than 1 digital sale as physical album are require more work to produce.

intrepid wrote:As an example SM Entertainment’s revenue for 2014 was $246.1 million USD their Operating income was only $29.3 million USD which amounted to a final profit of only $5.1 million USD for 2014 which means for every $48.2 million USD that came into the company the company made $1 million USD clear profit.

So “if” Raina and San E made $13,000,000 USD (which I doubt) then using the same calculation 13,000,000 divided by 48 equals 270,833 clear profit, but let’s say you divide it evenly between Brand New and Pledis that makes the amount $135,416 then assuming a 60/40 split in Raina’s favour that would leave Pledis with around $54,166 net profit.

@intrepid, none of that made any sense. Firstly, that 48:1 ratio for SM doesn't necessarily apply to Pledis as there is no god given rule that dictates companies will always have a Revenue to net profit ratio of 48:1. Secondly, PLEASE read my first post again because not only had you not understood the numbers you've completely missed the point. The idea wasn't to get an accurate estimate for Raina's earnings. THE IDEA WAS TO SHOW THAT RAINA EARNED FAR MORE THAN SEVENTEEN and even thought the numbers are not accurate, they can still be use to show that Raina earned far most than Seventeen and the comparison was actually in Seventeen's favour as physical album profits per sale will likely be higher than digital ones(per album) as more work goes into producing a physical album compared to a digital one.

PlayboyzAdam wrote:

intrepid wrote:....until Thursday next week at which time I’ll post those numbers

@intrepid, thanks

intrepid wrote:Also I think you have grossly overestimated what Raina earned and it’ll be far less than the figure you have given

@intrepid, the reason why I wrote that last paragraph in my first post was to address comments like yours...yes I have grossly over estimated Raina's earning just like I have done so for Seventeen's earnings but I acknowledges and justified my reason for why I did that. Regardless of what the gross profit is, those over estimate can still be validly use to show that Raina earned more than Seventeen when given the fact that one physical sales will earn more than 1 digital sale as physical album are require more work to produce.

intrepid wrote:As an example SM Entertainment’s revenue for 2014 was $246.1 million USD their Operating income was only $29.3 million USD which amounted to a final profit of only $5.1 million USD for 2014 which means for every $48.2 million USD that came into the company the company made $1 million USD clear profit.

So “if” Raina and San E made $13,000,000 USD (which I doubt) then using the same calculation 13,000,000 divided by 48 equals 270,833 clear profit, but let’s say you divide it evenly between Brand New and Pledis that makes the amount $135,416 then assuming a 60/40 split in Raina’s favour that would leave Pledis with around $54,166 net profit.

@intrepid, none of that made any sense. Firstly, that 48:1 ratio for SM doesn't necessarily apply to Pledis as there is no god given rule that dictates companies will always have a Revenue to net profit ratio of 48:1. Secondly, PLEASE read my first post again because not only had you not understood the numbers you've completely missed the point. The idea wasn't to get an accurate estimate for Raina's earnings. THE IDEA WAS TO SHOW THAT RAINA EARNED FAR MORE THAN SEVENTEEN and even thought the numbers are not accurate, they can still be use to show that Raina earned far most than Seventeen and the comparison was actually in Seventeen's favour as physical album profits per sale will likely be higher than digital ones(per album) as more work goes into producing a physical album compared to a digital one.

I understood perfectly what you were getting at I just wanted to throw cold water over the whole thing and bring back a little reality to the whole profit thing, of course SM business will be different to Pledis and all profit sharing I used are entirely speculative at best but you were using statements like “$13,160,279.909 brought in by Raina” which is misleading to someone reading your statement to what she earned, I just wanted to show an example of how little such a large amount would possibly end up to be.

As to Seventeen and how much they earned the answer to that is simple, nothing! According to sources ToppDogg’s company spent one and a half million dollars to train and bring them to debut and I hardly think Seventeen would cost any less, any money they earn must go to pay off that debt plus any additional debt from money Pledis may have borrowed to debut them, they may become an money earner for Pledis in the future but I doubt that is happening at the moment.

@intrepid, it doesn't appear that you have understood very much of what I have said and it still looks like you are not understanding what I have said. By saying,

intrepid wrote:...you were using statements like “$13,160,279.909 brought in by Raina...”

You are either ignoring or not understanding the passages where I've stated that is the maximum figure Raina brings in for Pledis neglecting Pledis' expenses, the bit where I clearly implied those figures where unrealistic and the bit where I clearly stated that my estimations where impossible. By saying,

intrepid wrote:So “if” Raina and San E made $13,000,000 USD (which I doubt)

You clearly missed the bit where I've said $13,000,000 was the maximum Raina made for Pledis (i.e. not including San E) assuming the profits was shared 50/50 between Pledis and Brand New Music.

What I've written isn't misleading as I've clearly express how unrealistic/impossible those figures are. Anyone that has sufficient comprehension skill should be able to clearly see that.

intrepid wrote:I just wanted to show an example of how little such a large amount would possibly end up to be.

@intrepid, Your method of taking the the Revenue to Net Profit ratio from another companies and applying it to Pledis' has no basis and is in effect no different from making up a random ratio. I can just take LOEN's(in 2014) 7:1 Revenue to Net Income ratio and apply it to the same calculation for Pledis as you have done to get $13,160,279.909/7 = $1,880,039.987 and assuming the 60/40 like you did then Pledis gets $1,128,023.9922 which is more than 8 times what you have calculated and shows how such a large amount would end up still being a relatively large amount.

intrepid wrote:As to Seventeen and how much they earned the answer to that is simple, nothing! According to sources ToppDogg’s company spent one and a half million dollars to train and bring them to debut and I hardly think Seventeen would cost any less, any money they earn must go to pay off that debt plus any additional debt from money Pledis may have borrowed to debut them, they may become an money earner for Pledis in the future but I doubt that is happening at the moment.

@intrepid, Regardless of whether Seventeen actually made anything for Pledis or not, it doesn't matter because all I needed was the maximum that Seventeen could have made for Pledis' to prove my point. If it still isn't obvious yet, I don't know exactly how much Raina/Seventeen is really making for Pledis and unlike some fans I don't pretend to know and that's why I do my calculations based on the maximum they could possibly earn NEGLECTING EXPENSES BECAUSE I DON'T PRETEND TO KNOW WHAT PLEDIS' EXPENSES ARE unlike some fans.

I've just been painfully made aware that there are still people out there that lack the cognition capacity to comprehend the information I represent in this topic. The painful part is that these people are part of the Pledis fandom...got dammit

I'll try to spell it out clearly for those who are still not getting it and hopefully it'll get through to them.


- RAINA DID NOT MAKE $13,000,000 OR MORE.
- RAINA DID NOT SAVE PLEDIS(DO I REALLY HAVE TO EXPLAIN SARCASM TO YOU).
- WHAT RAINA HAS DONE IS SHOWN HOW STUPID YOU ARE. (p.s. yeah this line maybe uncalled for but right now I'm pretty pissed at people mocking Raina and my topic. If you're too stupid to understanding the topic  and then you go mocking Raina and/or this topic because of your stupidity...you deserve this...I'll feel like an arse later when my anger subsides but not right now)
- WHAT I HAVE DONE IS SHOWN HOW INSIGNIFICANT THE AMOUNT SEVENTEEN HAS MADE COMPARED TO RAINA AND THEREFORE SEVENTEEN DID NOT SAVE PLEDIS/AFTER SCHOOL.


P.S The words expressed by me does not necessarily reflect the opinions of ASDaze and ASDaze admins. I do not work for ASDaze, I am just a fan and as such ASDaze is not liable for the actions I take.

At a minimum of 30 won per digital sale, Raina and San E makes a MINIMUM of $2.5 million USD while SEVENTEEN make an unrealistic MAXIMUM of $2.1 million USD.

See below and previous post for details of calculations.

LOL, I was going to let this go because this is getting pretty frustrating but then to my delight I found out that my sanity and intellect and has been by challenged by members of this fandom( and the Pledis fandom) and those who know me should know why I think that is so hilarious.

This economist article http://www.economist.com/node/21560605 has now been used against me on multiple occasions and every time it has done so, it demonstrates the cognitive capacity of my opponents(which is frustratingly low). My over estimates are based on verifiable facts and calculations and their purpose was NEVER to get a close approximation but to make a relative comparison in order to demonstrate a point. The estimates from that economist.com artist is based on god knows what, there's not citation for their estimates and calculations. The stupidity of using economist.com to argue against me comes from the fact that my estimates are clearly stated to be absolute maximun/over estimates and the economist.com article are minimum estimates. Where as the economist.com article tries to give an idea of minimum(not including expenses) of sales, I calculate the absolute maximum(i.e. not including expenses). You can't use the economist.com articles to logically argue against me because my estimates and economist.com estimates represent different purposes and that's why it's stupid to be telling me how my estimates are gross overestimates when I've made it clear that's their purpose and it's stupid  to be telling me how impossible my estimates are when I've clearly stated that myself.

Since you guys like to use that article against me, and you guys like to demonstrate your stupidity by repeating that part of the article where it says artists get as little as 30 won per track, I'm going to satisfy your stupidity and do my calculations based on that. In August AMNS had 98,949,473 digital sales and 30 won is currently equal to $0.02602 USD so AMSN made 98,949,473*0.02602 = $2,574,665.28746. THERE YOU GO, AMSN made over $2.5 million dollars USD. This figure is of absolutely no use to me 1) I can't reliably confirm that "30 won per digital sale part" and 2) because it is a minimum base figure while I did the calculations for Seventeen using on maximum estimates...I guess in this case this doesn't matter because it still turned out to be more than what Seventeen earned.


P.S the economist.com article actually says "as little as 30 won per track" but I going to assume that part was missworded and it actually means to say "as little as 30 won per digital sale" because there is no way that AMSN(i.e. one track) only made minimum of 30 won since it's 1+ year debut.

EDIT: In case you've miss the point again. I am not saying I believe Raina + San E made $2.5 million. That calculation was made just to satisfy the people that believe 30 won/digital sale. I reserved belief until I get facts. What I'm saying(which is what I've always been saying)  is that Seventeen did not save anyone.

hmm...in case anyone isn't aware yet. This topic has now escalated into an all out war with certain Seventeen fans/Raina haters because they're too dumb to grasp the point of this topic i.e. Seventeen did not save Pledis and this topic doesn't make assertions about how much Raina or Seven actually earned, only comparative estimates are given.

Please favourite and retweet the following to support Raina:
https://twitter.com/AdamFJH/status/664075252440236032
https://twitter.com/AdamFJH/status/664074722779394049
https://twitter.com/AdamFJH/status/664074084964151296
https://twitter.com/AdamFJH/status/664073495333044224
https://twitter.com/AdamFJH/status/664072933925502978

I personally do not think Seventeen or Raina saved Pledis, but Seventeen and Raina made Pledis a bit more relevant in the music scene. Since we haven't heard from After School, Nues't, Orange Caramel, and Hello Venus is of no more collaboration with Pledis. Not to mention, Son Dambi and Kahi did not renew their contracts with Pledis.

But Seventeen is reminding people that they came from a very small company yet they have as much talent as After School since they're from the same record label. And I think there are high expectations from Seventeen too since...heck... everyone knows After School is very talented. So there's that pressure & expectation.

I'm just glad we finally get to see Seventeen debut and to have Raina have a solo again. Her solo single, I don't Know, is very good!!! At least it's something or else we get nothing at all...

xtinevang wrote:I personally do not think Seventeen or Raina saved Pledis

@xtinevang, I don't think Seventeen or Rain saved Pledis either and Pledis is still far from being saved. The title of the topic is just a sarcastic title.

xtinevang wrote:...Raina have a solo again. Her solo single, I don't Know, is very good!!!

I personally h8 "I don't know" because of the lyrics and they way the lyrics are sung. I'm still supporting Raina though and I have bought the song from itune so still, RAINA FIGHTING!!!!