[DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

by **PlayboyzAdam** Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:07 pm

Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

I've been made aware that some fans are saying that using the Playgirlz Voter is cheating. I haven't seen these comments from fans yet so I can't comment on them but I will address this idea that using the Playgirlz Voter is cheating.

As of writing this post I am unaware of any rules from any music shows or from the sites the Playgirlz Voter votes on, that says using an automated system such as the Playgirlz Voter is forbidden.

The Playgirlz Voter obey's the limits set out by the music show sites, it does not hack their systems so that we gain an unfair advantage and I have no intentions of having the Playgirlz Voter do so.

Cheating is defined to be acting in a manner to gain an unfair advantage. Whether using the Playgirlz Voter provides an unfair advantage or not is a subjective matter, but honestly even if the music shows one day do declare that using an automated system to gain votes for After School is forbidden, I'll still do it even though at that point that really would be cheating.

To those that criticize Playgirlz Voter users or me, get off your high horse and consider does one of these conditions apply to you,

You have participated in(or done so independently) or promoted an event to help increase MV views for SNS points or to help boost the popularity of a MV. This can be consider an unfair advantage(especially if you're doing it in a very large fandom) because the views aren't legitimately obtain through watching the MV out of interest and this is also cheating Youtube and their paid advertiser customers.
You have participated in or promoted a hash tag event or you spammed twitter for the sake of getting SNS points. This can be consider an unfair advantage in a similar way the previous point is considered an unfair advantage.
You have participated in or promoted a search engine event or you did searches independently in order to increase SNS points....basically if you use a system in a way that the system is not indented to be used just for the sake of getting your artist awards from music shows, it can be consider an unfair advantage because there might not be fandoms (or not many members of some fandoms) that are aware of how to use these systems to help get those music show awards.
You are a B.A.P fan and you helped promote and/or use the B.A.P MAMA awards voter back in 2012...hmmm the idea behind that system is basically the same as this system i.e. automate the process a fan would go trough in order to vote. So if you are one of those fans you are in no position to be judging us. (Does anyone know if there's a general purpose voting system like the Playgirlz Voter that B.A.P has?)
You are a super Junior fan and you have promoted or have been involved in projects to send donations to Korean E.L.Fs to buy digital albums to increase music show rankings. For those who don't know, digital sales contribute the most towards music show and chart rankings(somewhere between 50% to 70% depending on the show). I do not jugde E.L.Fs for projects like those but considering how big their fandom is and coupled with the projects to buy digital album, it's like there's no chance for a fandom like ours to help After School win anything. So projects like those can be considered as a really unfair advantage....unless E.L.Fs get into a scandal like their current MAMACITA promotion where international ELFs accuse Korean ELFs of miss-using/stealing donations.
You have attempted to bypass IP restrictions(or promoted such techniques) place by websites for voting and creating accounts to vote e.g. voting continuously on M! CountDown by using the mobile MWave bug(not sure if that still works) or use a network like 3G to continuously create MBC+ accounts.
You have complained about how Pledis picks the worst times for After School to come back or you wish that Pledis is able to magically shcedule After School to comeback when After School has the popularity ADVANTAGE. LOL, that's right. Sorry guys, but that's how much faith this fandom has in After School or this fandom's ability to help After School win any awards.
You know nothing(or very little) about the things I've mentioned or how unsupportive this fandom really is.

If one of those conditions apply to you(too tired to think of anymore for now), you are in no position to be judging us.

To those fans that are actually able to remain on your high horses and judge us, as you can see we're not the only one that's using a system/strategy that can be consider an unfair advantage. That's how the game is played. Apart from the restrictions set out by those music show sites THERE ARE NO OTHER RULES. The fandom that's most supportive and/or has the better strategy helps their idols wins and that's basically THE ONLY RULES fans can guarantee will be follow.

I don't consider using the Playgirlz Voter cheating. I created the Playgirlz Voter to help encourage fans to support After School. I created the Playgirlz Voter to reduce the amount of time music shows rob us of(time that you'll never get back) that we could be spending fan boying/girling over After School. I created the Playgirlz Voter for those fans that have work, school and/or other commitments to be able to show their support for After School.
I created the Playgirlz Voter because I made a promised to myself that I'll do all I can to help After School win awards. I don't see the Playgirlz Voter as a tool for cheating, I see it as an expression of my support and I created it for other fans to express their support too.

by **captainsprunchz** Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:43 pm

The last paragraph though *.* <33 thank you Adam :') You worked so hard.

Have other fandoms gotten upset?? I've only heard concern from other Playgirlz and boyz.

But the reason ASDaze is willing to endorse this AWESOME system, is because

1) first and formost because of what Adam said above,

Adam wrote:The Playgirlz Voter obey's the limits set out by the music show sites, it does not hack their systems so that we gain an unfair advantage and I have no intentions of having the Playgirlz Voter do so.

2) Other Fandoms have/have had similar programs

3) It just makes voting easier for International Fans and will hopefully up participation levels.

So yay! Adam has said to me in the past (something to the tune of) that if only 7000 active fans voted and supported After School during comebacks there would be no need for the Playgirlz Voter.

and ASDaze receives 10,000 unique visitors each month! (There are plenty of other fans that don't use ASDaze as well)

However, we only need somewhere around 200-300 active fans with the help of the Playgirlz Voter <33

Eventually, it'd be great for our fandom to get to the participation level where we don't need the Playgirlz Voter anymore~~

but we're so thankful to have it! It makes the whole process so much less overwhelming, tedious~ and like you said, It just gives a chance for fans with time commitments to be able to help out After School. :')

Like, is that the greatest gift or what? So, thank you Adam<33

by intrepid Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:08 pm

I have two thoughts on this and the first is as long as it abides by the rules and levels the playing field and doesn’t abuse the system then I don’t have a problem.

On the other hand I personally don’t know what would constitute as cheating in this circumstance and the thing I’m worried about is if it works and After School/Orange Caramel did get a win and then it’s later revealed as being got though an automated system that they would be then asked to give back their trophy and be forced to make a humiliating apology.
As a fan I would never want to be responsible for that happening.

by **PlayboyzAdam** Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:52 am

captainsprunchz wrote:The last paragraph though *.* <33 thank you Adam :') You worked so hard.

@captainsprunchz, thanks<3

captainsprunchz wrote:Have other fandoms gotten upset?? I've only heard concern from other Playgirlz and boyz.

Apart from SwePlaygirl notifying me about this issue, that comment on ASDaze's ask.fm and this thread, I haven't heard anything else from other fandoms or this one. If anyone could point me to where fans from this fandom and/or other fandoms have commented about this issue, I'll really appreciated it.

intrepid wrote:On the other hand I personally don’t know what would constitute as cheating in this circumstance

@intrepid, I think it's up to the music shows to decided what is considered cheating and what isn't even if they don't explicitly state what are the rules. I can argue that using the Playgirlz Voter isn't cheating and it's doesn't matter if they find it cheating.

intrepid wrote:the thing I’m worried about is if it works and After School/Orange Caramel did get a win and then it’s later revealed as being got though an automated system that they would be then asked to give back their trophy and be forced to make a humiliating apology.

@intrepid, It'll suck if they get their award taken away from them and they have to make an apology, but I'm willing to take that risk. If the only loss is that they have to make an humiliating apology then I'll consider that a win, I can use the loss of a trophy and a humiliating apology to help me wake up this fandom from this delusional idea that Pledis is the main factor stopping After School winning awards. Whether an apologies is humiliating or not depends on how you think about it. If and when they need to make such an apology, I'll do my best to let them know how much hard work we spent on making, promoting, using the Playgirlz Voter and why the Playgirlz Voter was made so that even if After School apologises, they can take pride in our efforts. When that time comes, I'll need to make an apology to this fandom too but I assure you it won't be a humiliating one, I take a lot of pride in the Playgirlz Voter and the people who have help use it and promote it Very Happy

intrepid wrote:As a fan I would never want to be responsible for that happening.

@intrepid, if it's a matter of being held responsible then I'll proudly take the responsibility Very Happy

I've already assess the pros and cons to using the Playgirlz Voter and I decided the pros far outweigh the cons. Using the Playgirlz Voter will go ahead as planned unless someone really does find a very good reason for not using it. If and when using the Playgirlz Voter does inhibit After School from achieving awards then its use will continue but more discreetly, right now I need the Playgirlz Voter to be out in the open in order to promote it.

by intrepid Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:49 pm

PlayboyzAdam wrote:

intrepid wrote:On the other hand I personally don’t know what would constitute as cheating in this circumstance
@intrepid, I think it's up to the music shows to decided what is considered cheating and what isn't even if they don't explicitly state what are the rules. I can argue that using the Playgirlz Voter isn't cheating and it's doesn't matter if they find it cheating.

intrepid wrote:the thing I’m worried about is if it works and After School/Orange Caramel did get a win and then it’s later revealed as being got though an automated system that they would be then asked to give back their trophy and be forced to make a humiliating apology.
@intrepid, It'll suck if they get their award taken away from them and they have to make an apology, but I'm willing to take that risk. If the only loss is that they have to make an humiliating apology then I'll consider that a win, I can use the loss of a trophy and a humiliating apology to help me wake up this fandom from this delusional idea that Pledis is the main factor stopping After School winning awards. Whether an apologies is humiliating or not depends on how you think about it. If and when they need to make such an apology, I'll do my best to let them know how much hard work we spent on making, promoting, using the Playgirlz Voter and why the Playgirlz Voter was made so that even if After School apologises, they can take pride in our efforts. When that time comes, I'll need to make an apology to this fandom too but I assure you it won't be a humiliating one, I take a lot of pride in the Playgirlz Voter and the people who have help use it and promote it

intrepid wrote:As a fan I would never want to be responsible for that happening.
@intrepid, if it's a matter of being held responsible then I'll proudly take the responsibility I've already assess the pros and cons to using the Playgirlz Voter and I decided the pros far outweigh the cons. Using the Playgirlz Voter will go ahead as planned unless someone really does find a very good reason for not using it. If and when using the Playgirlz Voter does inhibit After School from achieving awards then its use will continue but more discreetly, right now I need the Playgirlz Voter to be out in the open in order to promote it.

This was hardly the reassuring reply I was looking for and only convinced me you either don’t understand the possible repercussions or you do and don’t care. Shocked

Firstly it “would” be humiliating and the group/company would have to distance themselves from those responsible (us); in a culture like Korea that is obsessed with “image” this would severely damage their reputation and credibility and if taken seriously enough may even cause the breakup of the group though a drop in their popularity and follow them throughout what’s left of their individual careers.
Even if that didn’t happen it would still cause a major backlash from fans of the other groups that lost because of this bot, something you don’t have to directly shoulder since it won’t be directed at you but them.

Perhaps I’m overreacting but maybe you need someone to play the devil’s advocate in this instance and point out some of the pitfalls you may have overlooked because if worst comes to worse I hardly doubt the members of After School would look upon such a situation with “pride.”

I do like the idea of a programme that “one-steps” the process for fans outside of Korea to cast a vote but your programme seems to me to overstep the boundary somewhat if I understand correctly about how it works; I would also point out that in poker it doesn’t specifically say anything about palming cards and just because it isn’t in the “rules” doesn’t mean it isn’t cheating.

I remain unconvinced this is either right or proper for us to do; regardless of how much I want our girls to win I want them to win with the pride knowing they won due to their hard work and talent not because someone came up with a clever programme. Suspect

Sorry to be such a stick in the mud but I am sincerely concerned about this.

by **captainsprunchz** Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:49 am

Hey intreprid,

First of all, ASDaze endorses the program because it doesn't break any rules and to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't go beyond what is humanly possible.

We could as a fandom do everything the Playgirlz Voter does. It just makes it easier.

So, I think that should reassure you --> BUT,

I'll email the BAP fandom and ask about their program. What it did, why they stopped, or why they continue to use it. They've been really awesome to us, so I'm sure they won't mind.

Secondly, I think it won't get that far. If the program is "cheating", I'm sure we will be called out on it before After School wins a show. I'm sure (and i hope!) there are checks and balances in place that would prevent or notify the music shows of cheating.

Even though the Playgirlz Voter doesn't hack the system, I"m sure other fandoms have made programs that do.

So i really hope they prevent that D':

Thirdly, Adam was sharing his personal feelings towards using the Playgirlz Voter and they make sense. However, ASDaze would not endorse or continue to use the Playgirlz Voter if it was found to be cheating or cause After School any amount of embarrassment.

Finally~~ I know what you meant (so don't worry), but I just want to point out that Adam did use his hardwork and determination creating this system. It's great when people use their talents to enrich and support the fandom and After School :'D

But i know what you meant. You wish the fandom would up the participation level so we wouldn't need an Automated Voting System. ASDaze is trying to come up with more ways to entice fans to vote and support After School~ We'll keep trying to improve that as well ^^

BUT~ yes, you are so right to be uneasy about the program. And this is a great time to iron all this out before the next comeback! So "devil's advocate" or just a concerned Playgirlz~~ It's really helpful.

So, I'll go ahead and email the BAP Fandom about their program and go from there~ Very Happy

I hope this makes you feel better. If there's more you'd like ASDaze to do let us know (please, please!) here or at admin@asdaze.com.

And, of course, if there's anything you'd like Adam to explain further about the program and possibly change, let him know.

I think that would help a lot of people out.

I hope this read friendly-y~~ because i meant it that way ><

Thank you!!

by **PlayboyzAdam** Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:14 am

intrepid wrote:This was hardly the reassuring reply I was looking for and only convinced me you either don’t understand the possible repercussions or you do and don’t care.

@intrepid, given the limitless amount of ways this can go down. It's very possible that there are factor I have not considered but the obvious ones you've previously mentioned I have. Of course I care, I think I put more thoughts into my actions then what you're giving me credit for. Why did you think I created this discussion, why did you think I encourage fans to bring up any concerns about using the Playgirlz Voter here.

intrepid wrote:Firstly it “would” be humiliating and the group/company would have to distance themselves from those responsible (us);

@intrepid That's a lot of assertions made with nothing to back up those claims. Even if they distance themselves from us I personally don't mind. I'm here to love After School not be loved by them. Also, I can already see Kahi wanting to distance herself from me because I've said some very negative things about the fandom that was suppose to be supporting her on one of her videos, but that's OK I still love Kahi Very Happy

intrepid wrote:in a culture like Korea that is obsessed with “image” this would severely damage their reputation and credibility and if taken seriously enough may even cause the breakup of the group though a drop in their popularity and follow them throughout what’s left of their individual careers.

@intrepid, LOL you are over thinking it and letting your imagination run wild. If the music shows deem using the Playgirlz Voter is cheating and they find out that the Playgirlz Voter is use to help After School win then it is this fandom's image that is tarnished not After School's...well more so this fandom then After School's image anyway but I doubt such an event will cause them to loss popularity or caused them to break up. This fandom has done far more to help After School to loss popularity and lead to their break up then any consequence I can conceive of resulting from using the Playgirlz Voter. You should be more concern about this fandom then the use of the Playgirlz Voter. Instead of going into a long rant about how this fandom is messing up After School, I'll let Sarah write her "Short comings of this fandom" opinion piece so she can gently tell you. I've tried to be gentle here, didn't work so I deleted it.

intrepid wrote:Even if that didn’t happen it would still cause a major backlash from fans of the other groups that lost because of this bot, something you don’t have to directly shoulder since it won’t be directed at you but them.

@intrepid you have to be aware that when you say things like "it would still cause a major backlash", you're making that statement with 100% certainty. You really should be careful with statements like those especially when you haven't provided anything credible to support it. Consider that the amount of backlash B.A.P fans received from that MAMA voter is very minor(I consider it minor anyway but that's from the perspective of an After School fan).

intrepid wrote:Perhaps I’m overreacting...

@intrepid Yes you are.

intrepid wrote:but maybe you need someone to play the devil’s advocate in this instance and point out some of the pitfalls you may have overlooked

@intrepid, Yes I do, thank you Very Happy

intrepid wrote:if worst comes to worse I hardly doubt the members of After School would look upon such a situation with “pride.”

@intrepid, It's not the situation specifically I'm interested in them taking pride in. If the situation in in question does occur it'll suck. It's the efforts we've put into to try and compensate for the lack of support from other fans that's what I want After School to be proud of. If the situation is question does occur, it's something I can use against this fandom at a later time.

intrepid wrote:but your programme seems to me to overstep the boundary somewhat if I understand correctly about how it works

@intrepid, what are these boundaries, what is your understanding of how the Playgirlz Voter works and how does the Playgirlz Voter over step those boundaries?

intrepid wrote:I would also point out that in poker it doesn’t specifically say anything about palming cards and just because it isn’t in the “rules” doesn’t mean it isn’t cheating

@intrepid actually if it isn't in the rules it really isn't cheating as long as the rules are followed. Your poker example fails because there is an implicit rule concerning palming cards in a standard poker game that may not be explicitly written or defined but is unanimously accepted. Plus, you're generalising how poker is played. It's is also possible to play poker with palming being accepted within the game and showing such skill looked highly upon.
You know that in some races you can't throw projectiles at your opponents to gain an advantage right? From my understanding this is generally true in races even if that specific rules isn't explicitly defined because it is unanimously accepted and implicitly create based on many factor. Note I said "in some races you can't throw projectiles". Have you ever played Mario Cart and attempted to throw a shell at an opponent?

intrepid wrote:I remain unconvinced this is either right or proper for us to do; regardless of how much I want our girls to win I want them to win with the pride knowing they won due to their hard work and talent not because someone came up with a clever programme.

@intrepid LOL, do you think After School is going to win with hard work and talent alone? LOL, I don't think you're aware of how things works...or how unsupportive the this fandom really is. Hard work and talent alone is not enough for After School to win any awards, After School needs the support of this fandom...but you know what? THIS FANDOM DOESN'T GIVE A DAMN. This fandom says they want After School to win awards but this fandom is all words and no action. I've previously created 700+ Melon accounts to demonstrated what this fandom was capable of and showed the math to prove that we do have the numbers in this fandom to help After School win, it's obvious why After School isn't winning any awards but this fandom is too delusional to notice/accept.

@Sarah, if you're reading this, I'm sorry but it's going to sound a bit repetitive.

@intrepid, I don't care whether fans use the Playgirlz Voter or not. All I cared about is that fans are actually putting in the effort to help vote. Honestly, I actually care about whether fans use the Playgirlz Voter as much as I care about people stealing my 1900+ hand made voting accounts I've posted in this forum for the shared account system...if you cared to take a look, those shared voting accounts are still there for people to steal.

@intrepid, at this point nothing you've said convinces me that using the Playgirlz Voter is a bad idea. If you're really troubled by the use of the Playgirlz Voter then consider why the Playgirlz Voter was created in the first place(see last paragraph of the first post in this thread). You are going on about this the wrong way if you are trying to convince my that using the Playgirlz Voter is a bad idea. I failed miserably at trying to encouraging this fandom to help vote and I think ASDaze doesn't know it but they are failing miserably too(@ASDaze sorry guys but that's the truth), it's not our fault, it's this fandom that's the problem. The creation of the Playgirlz Voter is a last resort and aims to encourage what little fans out there that do give a damn about After School, to vote. If you can show me that there is sufficient fan willing to vote for After School to help them win without the Playgirlz Voter then there's no need for the Playgirlz Voter, making the risks associated with Playgirlz Voter unnecessary.

@intrepid, honestly though, even if there isn't a need to use the Plagirlz Voter any more I'll still continue to use it because of the reasons I mentioned in my first post(I don't have the time to be spending 12+ hours a day voting like crazy anymore), but I'll do it more discreetly so no one knows, anything else that wants to join me is welcome to do so.

@intrepid, Your view on the efforts required to win with the Playgirlz Voter is skewed. Someone coming up with a clever programme alone isn't sufficient to helping After School win any awards(I'm not sure if you understand how those awards are won). After School still need to demonstrate their talent and hard work as some of those music show points are from judges. Their talent and hard work is still needed to promote their song, especially to the Korean public to increase digital sales. Also fans are still needed to work very hard at promoting the use of the Playgirlz Voter to a fandom that has long lost faith in After School's ability to win anything(UNLESS PLEDIS MAGICALLY PICKS A TIME FOR THEM TO COMEBACK WHERE THEY HAVE THE POPULARITY ADVANTAGE!). I see nothing wrong with this way of helping After School win awards but I'll be equally happy with After School winning by showing talent, hard work and fans helping After School win by voting without the Playgirlz Voter.

by **PlayboyzAdam** Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:24 am

captainsprunchz wrote:However, ASDaze would not endorse or continue to use the Playgirlz Voter if it was found to be cheating or cause After School any amount of embarrassment.

@captainsprunchz, I'm glad I can trust ASDaze to be responsible, but I've got my own plans Very Happy

Someone(an ASDaze admin) said that they hope ASDaze is recognised by Pledis one day. I hope ASDaze still has this goal in their sights.

by **captainsprunchz** Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:09 am

PlayboyzAdam wrote:@captainsprunchz, I'm glad I can trust ASDaze to be responsible, but I've got my own plans .

Of course~!!

PlayboyzAdam wrote:Very Happy Someone(an ASDaze admin) said that they hope ASDaze is recognised by Pledis one day. I hope ASDaze still has this goal in their sights

AND YES. That is definatley a goal... we just have a few things we need to accomplish before we can get there <3 :'D

by junghi4ever Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:32 pm

First I would like to thank for the great effort that creating PLAYGIRLZ VOTER represents.
Second I think that this program shouldn't have been developped in the first place IF us as playgirlz did our work in voting. It is obvious that we always give up without a fight, whenever our girls, OC, Kahi and now Raina have a comeback and the opponent is 2NE1, SNSD, Shinee, etc. we always make excuses as "they didn't win cause they were against a famous group"...well 4me their famous as well.
@intrepid said that he/she wish that AS wins because of their talent...well even If I wish the same...it doesn't work that way..if it did then AS would have many many awards I mean they are the most talented group, they might not be as powerful with their vocals, but who of the current groups challenge themselves with not only powerful choreos but also with other types of performances.
The truth is...music programs are a popularity contest and unfortunately we are losing.
If U think this is an uffair advantage...I think this evens things for us...'cause it seems that AS has more international fans that korean fans. And 4us the international fans it is really hard to support our girls: 1) different time, when the music programms are on most of us are sleeping 2) the pages are on korean...:S that 4me is so unfair
So let's try it first, if music programs forbid this type of program then ok, we'll go back to the hours of voting but if not at least let's try to fight together Smile

And like I always say: A groups strenght isn't measured by the #of fans, but by the willpower of their fanbase

by Sponsored content

[DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

[DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Is using the Playgirlz Voter cheating?