[DISUCSSION] H8 Kahi has gotten from tvN Taxi Interview

Lately, Kahi has been receiving a lot of h8 for the things she's said during this interview http://www.soompi.com/2016/04/26/kahi-reveals-the-reason-she-left-after-school-on-taxi/
I don't see a vaild reason to for the h8 and the things people are saying is just plain stupid/ridiculous.

When news sources initially reported on the story, they claimed Kahi said she was the one that was bullied and fans thinking that they know After School so well accused Kahi of lying...seriously guys, what makes you think you know After School so well to accuse her of lying...the arrogance of some people. I've seen the things you guys have to said through out the years and I can be sure most of you guys know crap all about After School. Regardless of that, it's been revealed by multiple comments that the translations were wrong and what Kahi really said was she was the outcast.

Even with the translation cleared people reacted the same thinking she was lying because people think she was saying that the other members bullied her for her to be an outcast. What some of you guys don't understand is that you don't need to be bullied to be an outcast, you can be misunderstood by your peers and hence their rejection of you making you the outcast. I think the latter case is Kahi's case, i.e. Kahi isn't bullied, she is just misunderstood and the misunderstanding is what's causing people to think of and treat her as a scary unnie.

To be honest guys, it pissed my off so much when you guys kept saying Kahi was going to be all salty and scary on Produce 101. I know some of you guys said it to be funny but still...it wasn't that funny but seriously, what would you know about Kahi https://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t340-discussion-kahi-is-a-strict-leader
I now want to remind you how wrong you guys were proven to be after the first episode of Produce 101 air. Kahi is strict when it came to performances and practices but other than that she is really soft hearted. I'm so sick of fans(especially the older ones) saying how she is so scary(generally) and then trying to justify it with their rubbish.

People also hated on Kahi when she revealed that some of the older members got upset when new members were added. Again, people arrogantly accused Kahi of lying and then delusionally tried to justify that Kahi was lying by stating how close the members are to each other like they knew the entire story or that they knew After School better than Kahi.
Kahi was speaking in past tense and people are hating on Kahi like Kahi is saying that the older members are still upset about the addition of the new members...the older members could still be upset about it but I can't find anything concrete to suggest that. Plus, the newer members like Nana have gotten pretty close to the older members through the years including Kahi so I doubt they're still upset about it. For those people that think Kahi is lying which ever way, consider that Jung Ah was originally the main vocalist and when Raina join After School, Raina took Jung Ah's position as the main vocalist. Have you ever worked in an office where someone new join your teams and take's your position or someone new joins the teams and you're worried about your job security because the new guy might come after your position? I can be pretty sure that at least Jung Ah was one of the older members that was upset about the addition of the newer members(especially Raina).

People also hated on Kahi when she said,

"I didn’t want to act like friends with the members. I wanted to perform my role as a leader correctly".

and from that people have interpreted that as Kahi saying she didn't want to be friends with the other members but that's not what Kahi is saying. What Kahi is saying is that she wanted to perform her role as the leader properly and anyone that has anyone experience leading a team would know that being a leader(a good one) does not necessarily entail being liked by your team members. I've once said the following quote,

"I think one of the most important traits a leader must have is the willingness to criticize members for their mistakes knowing that  their criticism won't be well received by the other members. I think this is a very heavy burden on a leader."

at https://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t61-discussion-potential-next-leader and I know Kahi understands that very well. Those of you criticizing Kahi for her leadership don't know the hardship and loneliness the role entails.

People are also hating on Kahi because of the fear that this will turning into another T-ara bullying scandal. Firstly this isn't a bullying case so it won't turn out like the T-ara bullying incident. Secondly, what Kahi said isn't that big of a deal, it's just that people have turned it into such a big deal. Kahi was saying that she left After School because no one was on her side, she was the leader but Pledis didn't listen to her(I think I've already said somewhere in another topic that Pledis is a crappy mediator), Kahi worked hard to teach the new members but all they can think of was how scary she was and I've know for a long that hurts her a lot. Seriously guys, I honestly feel like I want to punch anyone that kept on calling Kahi strict/scary, not that I would actually do it and I know that when some of you guys say it, you don't mean it in an offensive way... basically Kahi is saying she left After School because she wasn't getting the respect she deserved and she felt like an outsider because people didn't understand her.

And I’m one of those people, but I never said she lied or was lying or that she was scary however my disappointment in Kahi at the moment is huge.

I do know Kahi as much as someone who has never met her can and she is a warm hearted person and she wouldn’t “deliberately” say anything to hurt After School but she “did” and it’s not even a question and unfortunately this is the second time she’s done it.
When she said there was an outcast in After School and left it at that it created a controversy because if there was an outcast then there obviously has to be people that “ostracised” that person, unintentionally she basically said there was bullying in After School and that gave fodder to the h8ers and the anti’s which hurt After School as they tried to ferret out the person Kahi was talking about and the bullies.

In this interview she “finally” cleared that up by saying it was her, and “if” she left it at that I would be fine with what she said but, and here is where I lost all respect for her, she goes on to create “more controversy” for After School by creating the impression that there was friction between the original five and everyone who was added later and between Kahi and Pledis; WTF! I don’t care if this is true because you don’t say these things in public because you create a negative opinion of the people you’re talking about.

I for one aren’t one of these people who think kpop is all sunshine and rainbows, there are a lot of things that happen behind the scenes in “every group” that if known would surprise everyone, you don’t lump a group of people together and expect them all to agree or get along, that just never happens in real life and it certainly doesn’t happen in the make believe land of kpop, however the one thing you don’t do the one thing you should never do is bring it up in public!

If she had talked about this 10-20 years from now then I personally wouldn’t care but After School is still around (somewhat), most of the girls are still active and some are still in Pledis and Pledis still has to manage them; I also mentioned T-ara in another comment as a prime example of a rumour that can have a huge consequence on a groups’ career but this isn’t a “rumour” we are talking about this comes from the former leader and creator of After School!

Now the “real fans” do know about how close the members are but from my past experience most “fans” are clueless about a lot things After School related and that’s where “this” has become a problem, the vast majority, fans and nonfans, are going to look at this negatively and that “will” hurt After School just at a time where we “hope” After School will come back but if you wanted to make that not happen then congratulations Kahi you just made it harder.

Kahi could have made a longer and better explanation that made it clear everything was resolved in the end, because we real fans know it was resolved and that all the girls have a good relationship and Kahi “did” have friends in Bekah and Nana, but it would have been better if she had said nothing at all!

When Kahi left Pledis it was the most dignified and gracious partings I’ve yet seen in the Kpop world with both sides praising and thankful of the other, in this interview Kahi threw that all away; I have to believe that Kahi didn’t mean for what she said to reflect badly on others but the fact is it did and as someone who has been in the business as long as her she should know better, there is no defending her in this no matter how hard you try to justify what she said and I’m saying this as a person who considered Kahi not only their bias in AS but in Kpop as a whole but I was hurt and extremely disappointed in what she said and quite frankly while I don’t support the h8 she’s getting she did bring it on herself!

intrepid wrote:When she said there was an outcast in After School and left it at that it created a controversy because if there was an outcast then there obviously has to be people that “ostracised” that person, unintentionally she basically said there was bullying in After School

@intrepid It's because of people's ignorance that they think outcast equates to bullied victim and that is people's fault, not it's Kahi's fault...hang on, have you read my posts at https://afterschooldaze.forumotion.com/t336-news-kahi-dishes-on-outcasts-in-girl-groups-and-after-school before? Because in one of my posts I wrote,

In case some people are not aware you can be an outcast without being bullied. It's also possible for the bully to be the outcast and you can be an outcast simply by not fitting into the group and no bullying involved by or from any members. The allkpop article is about outcasts and Kahi has confirmed that there are outcasts in girls groups as well as After School. Nothing in that article directly mentions about bullying.

I'm getting really pissed on at this fandom right now. It's like no one care for what I have to say...well, normally wouldn't care UNLESS is stops the fandom from making an arse of themself and hating on Kahi.

intrepid wrote:and that gave fodder to the h8ers and the anti’s which hurt After School as they tried to ferret out the person Kahi was talking about and the bullies.

@intrepid, from what I've seen, the controversy that resulted from Kahi saying that there are outcasts in After School when she was on Beatles Code 3D didn't really negatively affect After School that much, there was a massive amount of people that made proposals for who the outcasts were but I didn't see anyone hating on After School because of it and I didn't see any one use it as a means to h8 on After School.

intrepid wrote:In this interview she “finally” cleared that up by saying it was her, and “if” she left it at that I would be fine with what she said but, and here is where I lost all respect for her, she goes on to create “more controversy” for After School by creating the impression that there was friction between the original five and everyone who was added later and between Kahi and Pledis; WTF! I don’t care if this is true because you don’t say these things in public because you create a negative opinion of the people you’re talking about.

@intrepid that negative impression is created by the mass ignorance and stupidity of people. There's nothing wrong with Kahi saying that the members were upset with the addition of the new members and this shouldn't even be a surprise. This is something that the fandom should already know or be able to figure out. Every time new members get added the group dynamics changes, older members get less time in the spot light, older members earn less than before because the profits need to be distributed to the newer members and just having your position taken away from you by a newer member can be pretty upsetting. None of this should be a surprise to anyone. Kahi is just confirming what can easily be figured out and for the people that's seen Produce 101, surely you've seen how upset the some of the contestants were when they had their positions taken from them by another member, now imagine what Jung Ah would have felt when Raina took the role as After School's main vocalist. That's how it is and how it'll always be when new members get added. The fact that the older members are now close with the newer members and even Kahi is very close with Nana should be sufficient for the fandom to know that older members are no longer upset about the admission of newer members. If people are too ignorant/stupid to make that connection then that their fault not Kahi's. If people have interpret Kahi's word as After School is faking their closeness with each other than that's the fault of people's ignorance and stupidity not Kahi's fault. It's not "fake" to be upset by the addition of new members and treat the new members nicely at the same time, it called being welcoming and that's the polite thing that should be done when there are new members. It takes time to get to know and accept new members so this idea that the of the older members will instantly love and be close to the newer members is unrealistic. That negative opinion(i.e. AS is faking their bonds) of After School that's been created is created by people's ignorance and stupidity and that's their fault not Kahi's.

intrepid wrote:I for one aren’t one of these people who think kpop is all sunshine and rainbows, there are a lot of things that happen behind the scenes in “every group” that if known would surprise everyone, you don’t lump a group of people together and expect them all to agree or get along, that just never happens in real life and it certainly doesn’t happen in the make believe land of kpop, however the one thing you don’t do the one thing you should never do is bring it up in public!

@intrepid all Kahi said was that old members were upset with the admission of the new members, there were conflicts, Pledis didn't listen to her, people thought she was a scary unnie...basically she's was just saying that she wasn't getting the respect she deserved and she was misunderstood, she was the outcast and that's why she left After School. What Kahi said isn't really that big of a deal and she certainly wasn't bad mouthing After School. The fact that people messed up putting together the things Kahi said and interpret it as Kahi saying the bonds and friendship in After School is fake, is the fault of people's ignorance/stupidity.

intrepid wrote:Now the “real fans” do know about how close the members are but from my past experience most “fans” are clueless about a lot things After School related and that’s where “this” has become a problem, the vast majority, fans and nonfans, are going to look at this negatively and that “will” hurt After School just at a time where we “hope” After School will come back but if you wanted to make that not happen then congratulations Kahi you just made it harder.

@intrepid you're responding and blaming Kahi like she deliberately made After School look bad. I can clearly see that you haven't explicitly said it but still...in your heart, you do you think Kahi delibrately chose word to make After School look bad? What's happened is that people have misunderstood what Kahi has said, this is all just a misunderstanding. Kahi hasn't said anything bad about After School, there's no need to be disappointed in her or h8 her. Kahi is just misunderstood.

intrepid wrote:Kahi could have made a longer and better explanation that made it clear everything was resolved in the end, because we real fans know it was resolved and that all the girls have a good relationship and Kahi “did” have friends in Bekah and Nana, but it would have been better if she had said nothing at all!

@intrepid yes, it obviously would have been better if Kahi had make it clearer but if you were in Kahi position do you think you could have made it clearer? I don't think making it clearer is a easy as you've stated. Consider that Kaeun only just joined After School as Kahi was leaving, I doubt Kahi knows how Kaeun and the rest of the members' relationship has developed over these years. The only unnie vs dongsaeng conflict that we can concretely confirm is the seniority rule one. We can confirm it because it was mentioned in a 2014 Sport Soul interview with UEE but the conflict should have been obvoius from what was said back in 2012 during their Weekly Idol appearance. The conflict was only resolved when the 3 unnies(Jung Ah, Juyeon and UEE) moved out of the dorm and Kahi wasn't around when that happened so if you were in Kahi's position I doubt you'll beable to tell fans that the members relationship is all good and well now. After School member's friendship are real but if people think that friendship equals no conflict...well that would be a really nice world to live in but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. This year UEE unfollowed Jung Ah and Juyeon on Instagram which suggests there were still conflict going on in After School so it's a stretch of the truth to say that evreything is resolved and all the girls have a good relationship with each other. It's going to take a lot to explain and clear everything and Kahi was actually asked why she left After School not about After School members' relationship. I personally want Kahi to keep talking about After School because I want to learn about After School. I'm still pretty pissed at this fandom for hating on Raina when Raina said that she can sing 'till she feels like coughing up blood but the camera will still be on UEE. Since then Raina has said she'll be more cautious about what she says and I've pissed of at this fandom because now I wron't get to know After School better.

intrepid wrote:I have to believe that Kahi didn’t mean for what she said to reflect badly on others but the fact is it did and as someone who has been in the business as long as her she should know better,

@intrepid what Kahi has said doesn't reflect badly on After School. That fact that fans have interpreted as bad is fans' fault. Saying that the older members were upset with admission of the new members doesn't reflect badly on After School, it's not bad to feel upset about the addition of a new member. It's only bad if you treat the new member badly because they are the new member. The only problem I can see here is that people are making a bit deal out of it when it really isn't that big of a deal.

intrepid wrote:there is no defending her in this no matter how hard you try to justify what she said

@intrepid "there is no defending her in this"?...hmm, yes there is. People are ignorant and stupid, if they lack the congnitive facilities to appropriately interpret what Kahi has said then that's their fault not Kahi's.

intrepid wrote:I’m saying this as a person who considered Kahi not only their bias in AS but in Kpop

@intrepid hang on, didn't you say that Kahi "was"(i.e. past tense and is not presently the case) your bias in that Soompi article?

intrepid wrote:I was hurt and extremely disappointed in what she said

@intrepid I'm extremely hurt and pissed of at this fandom and ASDaze...I've spent the last couple of day trying to figure out how to leave this fandom and still remain an After School fan and whether I should unfollow ASDaze and leave this forum. I like talking to you guys on this forum(I h8 twitter and youtube) and even though ASDaze is now against Kahi, they still support After School and I do want to participate in ASDaze projects so I guess I'll still be here until I eventually get kicked out.

It isn’t peoples “ignorance that they think outcast equates to bullied” it’s a reasonable assumption because the vast majority wouldn’t have thought she was talking about herself because when someone says there is an outcast in a group you don’t naturally assume that person is talking about themselves in the third person because people don’t generally talk like that hence the controversy; and the proof of that “is” the fact that nearly everyone thought she was talking about someone else even me and I don’t count myself as being stupid!

This wasn’t a trick question type of moment where the obvious answer is wrong because it was a “trick,” she made a statement without fully explaining what she meant leading to unfettered speculation which was entirely unnecessary when she could have simply said something like “because I took on the role of leader seriously I couldn’t get close to the other members and felt like an outcast,” it doesn’t have to be vague or controversial nor does it have to put blame on others for her own failings, she wasn’t asked to be like that she “chose” to be like that for whatever reason good or bad, it’s in the past and whatever decisions she made at the time she thought they were the right ones and there was no reason to bring anyone else into the discussion.

And as I said I don’t live in the fairyland of everything is right with the world, as I already said I’m sure most people understand that not everything that happens in the company, any company, where the interaction between members or members and staff or members and company doesn’t come without friction, but you never say it in public that is just not something that’s ever done unless it’s to burn down either the company or someone else in a group! Was that her intention? I would hope not nor do I want to believe she did this on purpose because it goes against what I’ve seen of her in the past, but she painted the other members in a bad light regardless and spat on Pledis for not doing things her way by not listening, and what happened because Pledis didn’t listen? Oh that's right they became more popular, got their first win and everyone else got along just fine; the only person that seems to be put out in all this is Kahi!

I don’t h8 Kahi but what she said didn’t “need” to be said because it wasn’t necessary to do so, she didn’t need to bring in the other members to answer the question where she lays the fault at her own feet nor did she have to blame Pledis for being smart enough to make AS great by adding Uee, Raina, Nana, Lizzy, E-Young and Kaeun and without whom AS would have cease to have existed long ago, she should have sucked up whatever sour lemon she was obviously sucking on at the time and been smart and diplomatic enough not to have said what she said in the way she said it; you can blame the fandom for being stupid, for not being smart, for not reading between the lines, but personally I’m so angry at Kahi now, not because I h8 her but because I feel betrayed by her and completely let down and demoralised.

So make your apologies for her all you want but I’m done with her, she stepped over the line and attacked Pledis and After School; I don’t even care if that it might have been unintentional, it doesn’t matter because she’ll leave it like last time to fester and infect the fandom, it shouldn’t have happened and I don’t care for any explanation or apologists, I won’t support her anymore and I doubt I’ll ever forgive her.

intrepid wrote:It isn’t peoples “ignorance that they think outcast equates to bullied” it’s a reasonable assumption because the vast majority wouldn’t have thought she was talking about herself because when someone says there is an outcast in a group you don’t naturally assume that person is talking about themselves in the third person because people don’t generally talk like that hence the controversy...

@intrepid your defence for people's ignorance fails because at the current moment, Kahi has made it clear that she is the outcast and yet people are still claiming Kahi said that she was bullied. If you don't believe me you can check my twitter(I'm AdamFJH on twitter in case you haven't seen me mention in yet) because I've responded to a couple of the comments claiming she said she was bullied.

intrepid wrote:...I don’t count myself as being stupid!

@intrepid in that paragraph I didn't say anyone was stupid. Ignorant was what I was calling people and ignorance does not equal stupidity. Ignorance means lack of knowledge, stupidity refers to people inability to make sense/use that knowledge.

intrepid wrote:she made a statement without fully explaining what she meant leading to unfettered speculation which was entirely unnecessary when she could have simply said something like “because I took on the role of leader seriously I couldn’t get close to the other members and felt like an outcast...”

@intrepid there's nothing wrong with speculating and coming up with theories(that's actually very healthy for exercising your mind), the problem occurs when people arrogantly think they know After School so well and make assumptions, spread those assumptions like they are the truth and act base on those assumptions. That's what has caused the controversies. Who knows why Kahi didn't initially mention she was the outcast...maybe it's the same reason why I don't elaborate on some things e.g. I've got too much other stuff I want to say and when I want to go back to elaborating on what I've previously said, the conversation has taken a different path making me feel my elaboration is irrelevant. Kahi isn't to be blamed, if fans are stupid enough to make assumptions, spread those assumptions like they are facts and then act on those assumption then the controversies are the fault of the stupidity of fans.

intrepid wrote:it doesn’t have to be vague or controversial nor does it have to put blame on others for her own failings...

@intrepid as I've previously said, it's became controversal because of people ignorance and stupidity. I haven't seen the that episode of Taxi yet but just from the picture that were shown, Kahi didn't look salty or like she was blaming other people. She was just saying it as it is.

intrepid wrote:it’s in the past and whatever decisions she made at the time she thought they were the right ones and there was no reason to bring anyone else into the discussion

@intrepid I'm sure she could have not answer the question at all but I'm glad she did and I'm glad she mentioned other people because now I know her and After School better.

intrepid wrote:I’m sure most people understand that not everything that happens in the company, any company, where the interaction between members or members and staff or members and company doesn’t come without friction, but you never say it in public that is just not something that’s ever done unless it’s to burn down either the company or someone else in a group!

@intrepid OK...so a couple of year back when AOA was on a show and they said how badly they were treated by their CEO e.g. if they don't do well then their CEO doesn't talk to them, the CEO doesn't even know their names and their CEO treats CNBlue much better...so are you saying AOA wants to burn down FNC entertainment? I remember that AOA fans didn't think AOA wanted to burn don't the company...actually AOA fans were pretty supportive of the CEO.

intrepid wrote:Was that her intention? I would hope not nor do I want to believe she did this on purpose because it goes against what I’ve seen of her in the past, but she painted the other members in a bad light regardless and spat on Pledis for not doing things her way by not listening

@intrepid Well considering that she was asked why she left After School. I can be very syre that at least her intentions was to tell us why she left After School. If anyone is stupid enough to make assumptions and turn it into a controversy then that the fault of their stupidity not Kahi's. Your opinion is that she painted the members in a bad light, but there's nothing wrong with the way she mentioned the other members. It's normal for them to respond like that to new members and it shouldn't be shamed. The problem is that people are thinking that being upset about the addition of new members should be shamed and that's really people's fault for thinking that way not Kahi's. What kahi said about Pledis isn't really that bad, I think when Raina said that Pledis told them the unnies get to have things their way because they were there first, that was a lot worst than what Kahi said about Pledis because that seniority rubbish was a serious conflict. I've also previously mentioned that was to only time I've ever hated Pledis.

intrepid wrote:and what happened because Pledis didn’t listen? Oh that's right they became more popular, got their first win and everyone else got along just fine; the only person that seems to be put out in all this is Kahi!

@intrepid did you just assumed that Kahi told Pledis to not add new members to After School? I'll just like to point out that Kahi never explicitly mentioned what it was that Pledis didn't listen to Kahi for. Given the context or where it was said, it is possible that Kahi was against the admission/graduation system but Kahi never explicitly state that so I wouldn't make such assumptions and then act like they're true.

intrepid wrote:you can blame the fandom for being stupid, for not being smart, for not reading between the lines...

@intrepid hang on, I am blaming the fandom for their ignorance and stupidity but I'm not blaming the fandom for not reading between the line. The problem is that the fandom is reading between the lines and the fandom really sucks at it. The amount of things things this fandom has gotten wrong when they tried to read between the lines has been so significant that's why I've been referring to this fandom with mass ignorance and stupidity, I didn't just call this fandom ignorant and stupid because I'm angry with them.

intrepid wrote:I’m so angry at Kahi now, not because I h8 her but because I feel betrayed by her and completely let down and demoralised

@intrepid Kahi betrayed no one. This fandom betrayed Kahi.

intrepid wrote:So make your apologies for her all you want but I’m done with her, she stepped over the line and attacked Pledis and After School...

@intrepid I'm not apologizing for Kahi, I'm supporting her and saying that Kahi didn't attack After School or Pledis.

intrepid wrote:I don’t even care if that it might have been unintentional, it doesn’t matter because she’ll leave it like last time to fester and infect the fandom

@intrepid just like the last time, it'll be this fandom's ignorance and stupidity that'll be at fault not Kahi. Just like the last time, fans have made assumptions and tried to read between the lines, just like the last time fans have spread their assumptions as facts and acted on their assumptions and just like the last time no one really gives a damn about what I've said so I want to remind you guys how wrong you guys were when you said that Kahi was saying that Raina and E-young were the out casts and just like the last time I want to repeat Bekah's famous quote on behalf of After School and Kahi,


This fandom needs to stop pretending they know After School so well because they don't, this fandom doesn't see it but it's this fandom that's the poison to After School.

I’m not going to make any more statements on this I have stated my opinion and I’ve said my peace, you can stand by her but she’s lost me as a fan which makes me sorrier than you can ever know.

I am saddened to read this.

I even joked at that and quoted the news tweet with a "Plot Twist" addition.

I mean, it was somehow a surprise to learn she felt like the outcast, but at the same time, she didn't say nothing new.

Most of the things that Adam is quoting, other news had already said before. Like older members feeling upset. And those things had also been discussed here and in other social networks, whenever a new member was added. On how the oldest members commented on how hard it was to add new ones, because of the pay (being re-distributed), having to re-learn dance routines (to adjust it to the new number of members), etc.

And Kahi wanting to be a leader, not a friend. I think anyone whom has watched their debut reality, would already know that. But also, when she left and twetted about feeling disappointed, I understood that she felt let down by the management and the agency, somehow, and she felt like that again when the promotions for her second solo album (once she wasn't in the group anymore) ended.

It was obvious she had her own reasons to feel like this, otherwise, she would had stayed.

But from here to claim she was being bullied. I don't think this is what she was trying to express and convey. She still managed to make some solid relationships with some of the members. Like, I think we can fairly say Nana adores and respects her so much. And she shows it whenever she can on her social networks.

Group dynamics apart, she still gave good things to the members, and there is no reason to believe the members wouldn't try to give her the same good things back. But the age gap, the lack of support on her leader decisions (whether it was the management or the members, because that can happen regardless of having love for her), and much more, might led her to feel like an outcast. Because, probably, the group wasn't heading towards the direction she'd desired. And she had the right to feel this way.

This is my opinion on the matter. However, I can be wrong, because, like Adam said, nobody can know what actually happens in the group, except its own members.

Trying to butt into it, blame anyone, or bully the members on social networks, is wrong.

What's happened has already happened, and we have no say on it. The group will never be able to succeed if we don't allow its members to sort out their own issues, and start dividing our support instead.

Just seeing what's going on with 4Minute, makes me realize even more that we can't blame others for what they are feeling.

OKDR wrote:Trying to butt into it, blame anyone, or bully the members on social networks, is wrong.

...hmm...Hi...for those who don't know, I'm trying to avoid this fandom because I'm pissed off at fans for hating on Kahi for this incident. I've got no problems if you're mad or very disappointed in Kahi or if we severely disagree with each other about Kahi like OKDR, intrepid and I have done in our many discussions but to h8 on Kahi and especially to use Nana in shading Kahi...B*TCH THAT'S GODDESS PARK KAHI YOU'RE SHADING, THE SAME GODDESS WHOM NANA AND I BOTH WORSHIP AND THE SAME GODDESS THAT ESTABLISH AFTER SCHOOL AS ONE OF THE MOST TALENTED KPOP GROUPS.

OK...I may regret that angry out burst when I've cool down later considering I'm directing that anger at some Playgirlz/Playboyz that I may need help from...hmm...but right now...

I will expose a different's group case, and what I did:

I followed a UK group called Sugababes for years. I hooked up on the fandom as soon as I watched their first video, that usually came to my own country with an average of 3 to 6 months delay (it was 2 months at that time with that particular group's debut song), and I watched, over the years, how members left always under "bullying" controversies pushed up by the media.

The thing is, it was never something you could prove, but journalists tended to love to make that group a walking drama, probably because they were the underdog in an era when All Saints suddenly disbanded (being on top) and Spice Girls were about to.

I stayed with the fandom, and I always supported the members that left if they decided to came back.

I read Siobhan's (first member to walk out the group) statements a few months later, and I understood she wasn't bullied or somewhat, she was just tired of being pushed around by adults (they started really young) and the "fights" among the members (and their parents) about whom should sing which lines just tired her.

Next in line, was the "always supposed by the media" bully: Mutya, so it came as a blast. Although the news blew up 2 months or so before (and then they denied her departure only to become real later), when she left, everybody started switching the light to another member.

A friend in the bussiness once asked me puzzled how come "Moody Mutya" spoke so nicely to me when I met her. It was bloody obvious the girl wasn't just taking crap from anyone, so if you approached her politely and respectfully, she could tell you all about her hopes and musical aspirations, and she was, indeed, pretty nice when she talked.

So when that member left, the "controversy" made up by the media stayed within' the group while she became another freaky musical rarity (she was pals with the Amy Winehouse of the era between Frank and Back to Black, and they both loved to party wild).

Then, one day, after several years of stability (musically and financially speaking), Sugababes decided to backstab and kick out the last remaining original member.

On the last years, it had been revealed that the true difficult personality issues within' the group had been her. Because she could suddenly burst into a rant, but she was the most sisterhood member at the same time. However, the differences between her and the newest (and strong personality) member, Amelle, had been increasing. The new member was getting popular thanks to her songwriting skills and a couple of tracks she starred into, while Keisha (the last original member), wasn't getting none of this. However, she lived for the group. She could only tweet about the work for the upcoming album and the girls.

When rumors started saying they were about to kick Amelle out (the girl was also too wild and caused several scandals), she firmly denied those... only to find out a few days later that the other senior (not original, but there from the second album) member and the newest one had allied with management to kick her out.

And she had to find out through the news (yeah she was told, but kind of at the same time).

We were a strong fandom. Really close. So you can have an idea, it was an era when message boards were pretty much more alive than nowadays (yeah, there's Reddit, but is not the same as back then when acts had their own busy forums). A few of us were veterans and others had shared fandoms with other groups and soloist from the rise of UK's Urban music, so we were like a big family.
Newest members always were welcomed, and we pretty much helped build not just the fandom but the sells for them.

I know it sound unbelievable but, except for Germany where they were already a thing, in the UK, it was thanks to the hard work we put onto spamming, not leaking b-sides, etc. (so people actually had to buy, even with that, it wasn't hard to find songs a little later XD), requesting on radios, etc. and we saw Attomik Kittens, Mis-Teeqs and even Girls Aloud (they had a few small "hiatuses" on their last years co-existing) come and go (as well as group members U_U") and put with the departure of Siobhan and Mutya (the last one was trully the core of their second age) while still supporting them to become bigger.

We literally watched them grow from teens to young women. Mature with their music, attended their lives, and religiously bought all singles versions copies and albums.

We put with the media, that always seemed to have it for them (to make them fall with scandals).

So that day, we all went bersek at the bizarre decision. It was even worse that what happened to LeToya and LaTavia from Destiny's Child (that one was pretty dramatic at the moment too). Not just because she was the last original member (the girls founded the group, not management), but also because she was kicked out without being notified, with more than half the upcoming album recorded and already replaced by an Eurovision contestan failure (the girl wasn't bad, but UK has been flopping on that festival for years now). We were all furious with the other two members for going like that.

I was trully disappointed on Heidi (the one that joined first, after Siobahn left), because I already suspected she had a two-sided personality, since Mutya (second member whom left) hinted that she had been the one dissatisfied with having a mother of a newborn in a group that had to promote a new album. It was easy for me to pick up a side, because the backstabbed member was my bias, but also because I felt like ambition had taken over the sanity of the group in a time when girl groups were going somewhere else.

However, my only reaction was to unfollow them on twitter. I didn't even want to directly insult them or nag them or bully them. I simply stated how disappointed I was on how they had acted. I even considered that, if things were that bad because my bias has personality issues, the best thing would had been to simply disband, not to kick her out and steal her hard work like this. But never it occurred to me that it was a good idea to go and harrass on social networks the remaining two members, let alone the girl whom came as a replacement.

I know some people did, though. But I also know that mostly the older fans, we all decided to simply protest on the message board that quickly closed temporarily, so we couldn't rant about it or protest anymore on the decision.

The staff tried to approach the board moderators to get them on board and they all declined.

Our ultimate act of disagreement with how they did things was to vacate the message board. Some decided to stay, but mostly the ones whom helped make it big, we all left.

Consequently, when their next album launched, it was like their own death sentence. The group hasn't managed to do decently on charts ever since and, despite there's no official statement, is pretty much dead and disbandment.

My say in all this is that, no matter how bad you take things, no matter how unfair you feel it is, going to harrass the other party (what you feel the other party is), is never the right thing to do.

Perhaps I took it differently because I still appreciated the other 2 members, despite I was hugely disappointed on them but, believe me, I was outraged as anyone else the most, because we were a key point to the group's developement to stardom and the staff were just pissing on us, disrespecting us and treating us like idiots by closing the message board and pretending nothing had happened.

When I think about it, we had the right to walk out as much as the ones whom decided to stay and support did, but at least, we had a good reason to not continue with our support to the group we believed had been stolen, somehow.
What I see from Pledis fans, is some twisted logic on not supporting fully the come backs of a group that already debuted with an enrollments/graduation system, allowing these things to happen, is the same twisted logic the AKB48 negative fans apply to the "my oshi is graduating, they are not the same anymore, they are going downhill". In that case, is even more bizarre, because the groups' sells had been showing the opposite to their predictions and the idol era, instead of ending, is growing more and more, with more and more groups.

People can take sides on what Kahi said, but going to harrass one or another is wrong. You can get your own reading on the situation, you can even claim you were a key point to support the group, but you weren't in the group and that is pretty much what invalidates the rights you thing you have to go a rant at any member in particular. Directly. Is not right.