[DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

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[DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by Renzel on Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:05 pm

Who do you guys think will be the potential next leader of After School? I'm not hurrying Jung-ah to graduate already (since I personally like her too and I don't want her to graduate yet ><) but I would like to ask who do you think is the one who fits the position of a leader in the current After School members?

Post your opinions below and tell us why, and what are their traits that is essential to a leader (:
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:25 pm

I think one of the most important traits a leader must have is the willingness to criticize members for their mistakes knowing that  their criticism won't be well received by the other members. I think this is a very heavy burden on a leader. Reminds me of how Nana made Kahi cried on MBC Radio Star when she had a little rant about Kahi making her repeat dance move even when Nana has already tried her best. Probably hurt Kahi extra because Nana is one of Kahi's favorites.

I think another very important trait a leader should have is the ability to mediate. I was very impressed by the way Kahi handle the situation between Juyeon and Raina in My Teacher is Coming. I'm pretty sure most people would have lost it very quickly.

Another very important trait is the ability to be assertive and to have members trust and follow you. Also other important traits include intelligence, kindness and ability to negotiate (very important to get a company to agree to demands).

With all that said I think NO ONE CAN EVER REPLACE OUR ETERNAL LEADER PARK KAHI!!!

...but if I had to choose I'll pick Raina as the next leader. I think Raina is kind hearted, I think she is smart and from watching her play the part of vice leader multiple times on Playgirlz School I think she'll make a good leader. The fact that members were willing to choose her as vice leader shows they recognize her leadership potentials.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by HelloImPatch on Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:06 pm

Hmm, I think either Nana or Uee. Uee has a strong background in discipline which we've seen when Kahi told her story about Uee lol, but with how well everyone stepped up when Kahi left, that might not be needed. Also, with the fact that she's missing a lot because of drama recordings, that might not work out. Nana however is usually always there, and with her strengths in dancing and she's a strong singer, she might be good at leading by example.
The thought of Raina as a leader...is hard to grasp for me. She definitely has shown that has the capabilities, but I wonder with her cuteness, would that drastically change the direction of After School or could she maintain the strong, sexy, mature image? However, already being the leader of OC, she might have the advantage of having that group leadership experience.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:16 am

@HelloImPatch, Out of all the members that haven’t graduated yet Nana is my bias but I don’t think she is the best candidate. My main problem with her is that I think she has the mentality of a kid.

I think it’ll be funny to see Juyeon get selected as the next leader for a while but my vote still goes to Raina.

I think people might be under estimating Raina’s potential because of the image Pledis has created for her in Orange Caramel. In my opinion Raina is far more than a cute little girl with a very impressive set of vocal cords. From what I’ve seen Raina is a very strong headed individual. In My Teacher is Coming Raina didn’t just took it sitting down when the PD told Bekah that the other members must be jealous of Bekah because Bekah is such a good singer and rapper. Raina has been very persistent with promoting her rapping skills (showing off her rapping many times through the years) when no one seems think much of her rapping. Raina is also not afraid to speak her mind like how she spoke about the camera is always on UEE even when Raina sings as if she feels like coughing up blood. A lot of the qualities I think a good leader should have I see these qualities in Raina. Raina is also very caring, like how during the conversation in The Beatles Code 2 when they talked about Jung Ah thinking she was going to be the next to graduate, Raina was the only person to speak against the idea( I’m a bit disappointed that the other members didn’t join). Raina questioned Jung Ah why she thought that and told Jung Ah she was talking nonsense.

I’m sure if fans put aside Raina’s cutesy image the fact that Raina is a strong headed mature individual can easily be seen.  I would like to see the following Raina lead After School




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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by sevensketch on Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:52 am

i think it's a bit too early to discuss who'll be the next leader since Jung Ah doesn't looks to graduate soon. She need a more powerful fandom for herself to pursue a solo career. event Kahi's fandom doesn't powerful enough to support her when she comeback to make her stand out between other competitors in Kpop. but since Kahi said she want to enjoy her solo career, i think it's ok for her. i hope Kahi comeback soon. I already miss her Very Happy

But, this is just my opinion for the next AS leader.
Juyeon is the oldest among the girls, so she should be the first candidate to replace Jung Ah, but, i'm afraid she need to put aside her dorkyness and change it to be more discipline personality to take the leader role. she will be a good leader, but we'll see a different Juyeon if she become the leader.

next is Uee, she is too busy to be a leader. just my opinion hehe Very Happy

Raina, she is same with Juyeon's case, i'm afraid we'll see a different Raina if she become a leader, althought she is a leader for OC now, it is because OC cute concept she is the most suitable leader for OC.

Nana and Lizzy. AS is a girl group with the age diversity. i think NaLiz are too young to be a leader, but Nana has more potential then lizzy since she has a strong personality and better charismatic. Lizzy stronger in foreign language, she definitely will be a leader in the future.

the last is the maknaes, they are still too young and need more time for themself.

if it's fore the leader, here's my candidate :
Juyeon > Raina > Nana > Uee > Lizzy > Maknaes
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:39 pm

sevensketch wrote:i hope Kahi comeback soon. I already miss her Very Happy

Me too, I wish Pledis would put more focus on Kahi's comebacks.

sevensketch wrote:Juyeon is the oldest among the girls, so she should be the first candidate to replace Jung Ah

I don't think age should be the main criteria in leadership selection. Jung Ah is the oldest and I think she is one of the worst candidates to be a leader(sorry Jung Ah fans). I think Jung Ah is way too soft hearted to give criticism when it's needed. Members seek counselling from Jung Ah because she because she is easy to open up to. I don't think member's are going to be as open to her after Jung Ah starts criticizing their mistakes. Also on Weekly idol they said that things aren't getting done with Jung Ah being the leader.

sevensketch wrote:...but, i'm afraid she need to put aside her dorkyness and change it to be more discipline personality to take the leader role. she will be a good leader, but we'll see a different Juyeon if she become the leader.

LOL, I don't want Juyeon to put aside her dorkyness if she becomes a leader. Maybe if Juyeon becomes leader she would be more serious when it comes to performing her duties as a leader and act like her normal self during other times. Juyeon isn't really good at anything except for trolling but I guess she could delegate tasks to people who are better qualified to perform them e.g. Raina to oversee After School vocals and Nana/Jung Ah to oversee After School dancing.

sevensketch wrote:Raina, she is same with Juyeon's case, i'm afraid we'll see a different Raina if she become a leader, althought she is a leader for OC now, it is because OC cute concept she is the most suitable leader for OC.

I don't think people should be afraid of seeing a different Raina if Raina becomes the leader. This over powering ball of hamster like cuteness and vocal prowess is just one side of Raina. Raina has already shown her other sides and I think those sides are just as equally appealing. Besides, Raina will still be the leader of Orange Caramel and I think that's enough to remind her which side of her Orange Caramel fans want to see.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by Jayden on Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:51 am

PlayboyzAdam wrote:I think it’ll be funny to see Juyeon get selected as the next leader for a while but my vote still goes to Raina.

I think people might be under estimating Raina’s potential because of the image Pledis has created for her in Orange Caramel. In my opinion Raina is far more than a cute little girl with a very impressive set of vocal cords. From what I’ve seen Raina is a very strong headed individual... Raina is also not afraid to speak her mind like how she spoke about the camera is always on UEE even when Raina sings as if she feels like coughing up blood. A lot of the qualities I think a good leader should have I see these qualities in Raina.

I actually agree with what Adam has said, and I base it on my observations of Raina in Playgirlz School. Even early on, she's got a bit of that natural leader quality going on -- she's not afraid to speak her mind, she knows her members' strengths and weaknesses (look at her helping to smooth over conflicts or use her talking skills to divert attention to those who aren't getting the time to shine). A leader needs to have this level of maturity which I think other members like Juyeon, Lizzy and Nana still lack.

While Nana has that disciplinarian thing going (from the interviews after Kahi's graduation) and she very clearly is the aura of the group, she falters a bit in having that natural confidence in leading and setting the tone for the group, mostly in terms of looking out for the members and giving them all a chance to shine. Raina is conscious of this, and will rotate the spotlight, and I think this is because she sees the group as a whole -- conscious of the dynamics and how each person affects the atmosphere.

During their First Love comeback, the fact that she stood up and spoke firmly about letting Kaeun settle in before introducing more members was also the mark of a true leader to me. A leader must think of the whole group first and foremost, and how each member is doing. She mustn't be absorbed in her own self or her own life. In this, Raina embodies the qualities of a good leader.

The only thing is, I don't think Pledis would make Raina the leader of both Orange Caramel and After School. One possibility I see is to promote Raina to the leader of After School, and maybe have Nana step up as the leader of Orange Caramel. Orange Caramel could be training ground for the next potential leader.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by OKDR on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:11 am

I am gonna be mystic and highligh the fact the group is filled with Leos. Leos are potential leaders, usually people misjudge them because they also know how to be a dork.

Don't get fooled, Lizzy is young, but I have no doubts she could lead AS if it was needed, nor Kaeun. The thing is Kaeun is the last addition so that would be a far far future.

Lizzy surely knows how to play the dork, but the way she makes connections is really impressing. If she had to focus on that, maybe we'd all get surprised because she is indeed determined as a person.

I don't see E-Young because she's way too shy. She's surely determined, but she'd lack the quality of being demanding on the group's behalf.

Out of the Leos,

Uee could be a great leader if she hadn't to handle both her own career as an actress and the group.

Raina would surely be a good choice for artistic matters, but I am afraid we might get back to the old patterns. One think I disliked of Kahi being in the group (and notice she is my utlimate bias) is the fact she took over all the lines possible, even those that would suit other members better.

Juyeon could be a leader in the way Jung Ah is, less demanding, more caring, I am sure she's matured enough to leave her dorkiness aside. Yet the demanding thing... Jung Ah does has that, but I doubt Juyeon would go and protect the group's interests towards their company.

NANA doesn't have the time. But I am not that doubtful of her leadership potential now. Maybe is because she's doing quite a fine job as lead-vocal that she spits that new image to me.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:09 pm

OKDR wrote:Don't get fooled, Lizzy is young, but I have no doubts she could lead AS if it was needed

Lizzy didn't leave a positive impression of her leadership skills on me when she was a leader in Playgirlz School. It's been a long time since then and I've seen Lizzy mature in lots of ways so maybe the potential is there but I fail to see it. I'll keep a closer eye on Lizzy from now on. @OKDR you maybe right. Raina did mention how Lizzy will exert her leadership skills.... when she's naked lol! 



LOL, the suspicious and DAEBAK!!!! expressions on Kahi's face are priceless.

OKDR wrote:Uee could be a great leader if she hadn't to handle both her own career as an actress and the group.


If people are going to base Uee's leadership skills on how strict she was with disciplining Raina and Nana then consider this. Under Kahi's leadership you get a unni/dongsaeng relationship where they play, muck around, do chores and work/live as equals. With Uee's leadership you get a unni/dongsaeng relationship where unnis get to eat first, dongsaengs have to eat last, do the tidy up after the unnis and the dongsaengs do all the crappy jobs. It was funny to hear Uee do it and confess to it but to actually have it happen to After School means that the members aren't going to be as close to each other as they are now and we're not going to see funny stuff like E-young arguing against her unnis on Weekly Idol. I don't actually think Uee is like that anymore. For example, when Lizzy accused Uee of headlocking and kneeing(I think?) other members. Uee said she did that to try and get close to the other members but they just walked away leaving her feel embarrassed. I haven't seen enough from Uee to suggest she'll be either a bad or good leader.

OKDR wrote:Raina would surely be a good choice for artistic matters, but I am afraid we might get back to the old patterns. One think I disliked of Kahi being in the group (and notice she is my utlimate bias) is the fact she took over all the lines possible, even those that would suit other members better.

I'm a HUGE fan of the old patterns. I still hope for the old days to return(I know it ain't gonna happen). I don't think Kahi intentionally hogged all the lines. I don't think Kahi is that selfish and I don't think the leader solely decides the line distributions. Brave Brothers said that if he doesn't think a member is good enough then he won't even give that member a single line in the song...something like that. I also remember that Brave Brother was a tough critic, he said something about making Jung Ah running home crying several times. Anyway, it's apparent that the composers have a lot of involvement in the line distribution and basically how the entire song sounds like. I know my opinions aren't that popular to the majority of Kpop and After School fans but I like the old After School songs the way they were. I don't care about equal line distribution all I care is that the song sounds good.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by danosh on Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:31 pm

hmmm Lizzy or Raina
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by K-kitsune on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:31 pm

Talking about old patterns, I don't really think Raina would be the best choice. While it's true Kahi got many lines when she was the leader, she was also the main dancer and held together After School's sexy, powerful image. I think uniting the group in the way is more important than being a good singer. Raina doesn't have that strong image (neither does Jupal). Her cute image is great for leading Orange Caramel, but the whole of AS? I don't know. To be quite honest, only Uee and Nana would be able to lead the way in this respect once Jungah leaves, as their tall & sexy image is what After School is known for, but its they both have scheduling difficulties (Uee way more than Nana). Uee is kind but isn't shy to discipline, and Nana epitomizes After School's image post-Kahi, she was also Kahi's protégé of sorts.

I don't really know what I'd suggest at this point...
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by OKDR on Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:31 am

Lizzy is young and surely she knows how to play the dork for the show. The thing is, she's smart, surely some years have brought her a better sense on what should be leading. Hahaha.

I am no fan of the old patterns. Kahi did ask for getting all Bekah's lines once she graduated, and I personally don't like how she developed those. Whenever I listen to the old recordings, there's too much Kahi, honestly. Her voice nags me when she over-does her high notes on a nasal and childish voice. I prefer her when she sings like she did on her first solo EP.

Producers like BB and more do choose for certain members, but in Jung Ah's case, her parts went always to Raina. It's simple, Jung Ah's range isn't as huge as Rainas, her voice has cracked several times on live performances before, and she was constantly sick back in the day too, something that deeply affected her voice.

Uee surely applies that sort of jerarquized discipline, however, she did that when it was needed because they were too many for the space they had or the vans. The sense of seniority is not that bad either, and she's also proved she's quick to embrace the new members in a less stiff way.

What I like from Jung Ah's leadership is that the group shares more the spotlight, they don't just concentrate everything in a member. When Kahi was in, outsiders opinion was usually that "She should leave, they're bringing her downhill" and that was because they could only see and listen her, while they weren't that keen on Raina's main (some non-fans call her chipmunk for her vocals or even goat). Now she's not in the group, she can evolve on her own, but the group can also start showing more the potential of all the members working together.

Despite it seems like she wasn't fully satisfied, I like that Kahi tried walking away from the idol image and not fall into the dance-diva pattern. Her first EP, I love it, but if I may be critic with it, she wasn't doing something too different than other group-members gone solo and less from Dambi (I am glad she also tried something different with her last release). Kahi in AS sometimes looked more like a teacher than a leader. Jung Ah does still look more like a caring mother than a leader, but I like the fact the group members can shine a little bit more equally than they did before.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by umiboshy on Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:35 am

For a new Leader I think that either Jooyeon or Uee should get the position
While the leader is supose to be strong and all rounded usually (vocal and dance) these 2 lack on the vocals, but they both have qualities that requires to be a leader:
Uee is severe and she corrects the member when something needs to be done , you can see straight on that she's the most mature and straight foward member.

Jooyeon is a little bit like Jung Ah were she seems to really care for the other member, to me she's the one that close with all the member, even if she's a dork and people don't her seriously I think if they gave her the title, she'll take it seriously, it might be out of context but when she had that solo perfomance of Buttons & when I grow up, she took it seriously, she was fierce and confident!



Last edited by umiboshy on Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:50 pm

OKDR wrote:I am no fan of the old patterns. Kahi did ask for getting all Bekah's lines once she graduated

@OKDR how did you know Kahi asked for all of Bekah's lines? Was this something you inferred or was there some sort of news on it? Even if Kahi did ask for all of Bekah's lines I don't see a problem with that as long as Kahi thinks she is the most competent in performing Bekah's lines.

I do remember Kahi taking all of Bekah's lines for the Ah performance in their Japanese concert and I thought she performed it well so I don't see a problem there. However I really didn't like her performing Bekah's lines in the Diva performances(and Kahi's English didn't help either) but Kahi doesn't take all Bekah's lines. For example, in the Diva performance for SBS Gayo Daejun 2011 Kahi performed half of Bekah's lines and the other half was done by Lizzy.  Also Nana took Bekah's lines in Shampoo when Bekah graduated. Even if Kahi did ask for all of Bekah's lines I don't think she'll do it out of selfishness.


OKDR wrote:Producers like BB and more do choose for certain members, but in Jung Ah's case, her parts went always to Raina. It's simple, Jung Ah's range isn't as huge as Rainas, her voice has cracked several times on live performances before, and she was constantly sick back in the day too, something that deeply affected her voice.

My point of mentioning Brave Brothers was to demonstrate that the leader wasn't solely responsible for the line distribution so you can't simply blame Kahi for being responsible for hogging all the lines. Can you provided me with links for live performances were Jung Ah's voice has cracked as well as other performances where Raina performed Jung Ah's highs in Diva besides the one in SBS Gayo Daejun 2011. I'm having trouble finding those videos for a debate.

I don't think Jung Ah's parts should be given to Raina unless Jung Ah has health problem or is in danger of having health problems. Even if Raina is a better singer I think Jung Ah sounds better singing them especially Jung Ah's highs in Diva. Also Raina didn't do a very good job with Jung Ah's lines in that SBS Gayo Daejun 2011 Diva performance.


OKDR wrote:Uee surely applies that sort of jerarquized discipline, however, she did that when it was needed because they were too many for the space they had or the vans. The sense of seniority is not that bad either...

Are we still talking about the time Kahi revealed on Strong  Heart how the choreography team saw Uee take Raina and Nana to a room to discipline them after Uee saw them playing with the unnis? I don't remember there being a problem with competition for seats in the van. But I do remember Uee telling Raina and Nana about seniority and where to sit in the van...so I guess only Uee really had a problem with it.

Considering Kahi was the leader it seems to me that Uee is acting/speaking out of line here. I think this seniority thing Uee had back then was horrible. Under Kahi's leadership you get a first come first serve system for seating arrangement in the van, washing duties are evenly distributed and you get to muck around/play with unnis like normal friends. Under Uee's leadership back then Uee would always get her favorite spot in the van, no playing with the unnis and the dongsaengs do all the washing. I can see how it's all good for Uee but I think it's unfair for the others. This type of seniority relationship in Asian cultures(I'm Chinese BTW) is between people that are not close with each other and this is the relationship Uee was promoting.

Thank goodness under Kahi's leadership and the rest of After School's influences Uee dropped this seniority attitude and if she does become a leader I don't want to see it come back. I want to see an After School that's close and mucking around/playing with each other because that's when they're funniest.


OKDR wrote:
What I like from Jung Ah's leadership is that the group shares more the spotlight, they don't just concentrate everything in a member. When Kahi was in, outsiders opinion was usually that "She should leave, they're bringing her downhill" and that was because they could only see and listen her......Kahi in AS sometimes looked more like a teacher than a leader. Jung Ah does still look more like a caring mother than a leader, but I like the fact the group members can shine a little bit more equally than they did before.

LOL, for 2 people with Kahi as their ultimate bias we sure have very opposing opinions about Kahi. Maybe the group sharing equal spotlight has more to do with the choreographers and composers than Jung Ah herself.

My opinion that Jung Ah is one of the worst leader candidate remains. Also consider how horrible the last few Flash Back performances were. My biggest complain is how out of sync they were. If Kahi was there she would had reviewed their rehearsals and criticized then corrected their mistakes. The ability to teach is another very important trait of a good leader. This trait was really needed in those last few Flash Back performances. Over mothering the members like what Jung Ah has done isn't a good thing especially when there's no longer someone willing to be there to openly criticize and teach.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by OKDR on Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:07 am

Well we sure do think different. Regarding to umiboshi's comment. I am critic with my biases even more. I am sorry I am not for delude myself with the things I like. I am not the usual fangirl material that can deal with anything from the idols they like. If I find something wrong I say it, or if I think it could be different.

When Bekah left and Kahi got all her rap parts, fans were the ones to bring up that matter, it was later said she had requested to keep the lines, because Bekah's graduation really affected her and she didn't want anyone else to have those. However, even respecting her will for that, I wasn't the only one commenting on the fact she didn't fit those lines quite well.

Jung Ah's troubles with her being sick had been often mentioned on interviews. Her voice cracking, it happened during DIVAs performances back in the day when she reaches the highest note. The fact you get the back track so loud in almost all their performances is a trick thought. And the MR doesn't fully show what happens vocally as when the music gets removed, parts of the pre-recorded back vocal track still get mixed to the live voice.

And I am leaving this here because, obviously we will never think the same. You liked the fact Kahi not only teached them and was stricth with them but also got all those singing parts. I like the fact that when she left, I got to finally listen more some of the members who do have potentially good vocals. Jung Ah may be too soft, but sometimes I rather whatch a non-perfect matched dance routine but a lively group that's sharing responsabilities.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by Jayden on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:09 pm

Thanks both Adam and OKDR for expressing your opinions and trying to keep it cordial Smile It's definitely not easy when it comes to your biases, but thanks for trying to be objective and to see each other's point of view. 

It can also be easy to overgeneralise, so specific examples will always help. Still, what we see will always be filtered through the interviews and the images we have of the girls through their variety and other appearances.

In saying who we think could be the next potential leader, we often also have to say who we think shouldn't be. Overall I think it's important to bear in mind that every single leader will have their areas of strengths and weaknesses, and it will be very much tied to how we perceive what's best for the group at the time.

Right now, for example, we would probably need someone who can tie the different generations of After School together -- senior enough to be respected by the seniors, but caring enough so that the juniors don't feel neglected or afraid to approach the leader. We also need someone who can ideally project the image of After School to the public. Somehow After School just doesn't seem to be having that break through they need. They're reasonably popular, with plenty of endorsement deals, but they need a truly unique concept to grab everyone again. The leader should probably be someone who isn't afraid to try something entirely new and unconventional.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:08 pm

OKDR wrote:I am not the usual fangirl material that can deal with anything from the idols they like. If I find something wrong I say it, or if I think it could be different.

@OKDR Me too, while I'm finding that we have a lot of opposing views we also have a lot of similarities Very Happy 

OKDR wrote:When Bekah left and Kahi got all her rap parts, fans were the ones to bring up that matter, it was later said she had requested to keep the lines, because Bekah's graduation really affected her and she didn't want anyone else to have those. However, even respecting her will for that, I wasn't the only one commenting on the fact she didn't fit those lines quite well.

I don't trust what fans say until they provide actual evidence. I've been in a lot of debates with fans and most(if not all) try to assert their opinions as facts. I agree that Kahi doesn't fit Bekah's lines very well but I also think no one currently in AS fits Bekah's lines very well. Maybe if Lime was in After School she can do Bekah's lines.....I don't know

OKDR wrote:Jung Ah's troubles with her being sick had been often mentioned on interviews. Her voice cracking, it happened during DIVAs performances back in the day when she reaches the highest note......

Like I've said I have no problems with Raina taking Jung Ah's part if Jung Ah has health problems or her health is at risk from her performing those parts. I prefer to see them lip sync than have Raina take Jung Ah's part. As long as the lip syncing is done well I have no problems with it. All I'm looking for is an entertaining performance. If they feel like they need to lip sync then let it be. I don't care if that can sing live and dance at the same time.

OKDR wrote:And I am leaving this here because, obviously we will never think the same. You liked the fact Kahi not only teached them and was stricth with them but also got all those singing parts. I like the fact that when she left, I got to finally listen more some of the members who do have potentially good vocals. Jung Ah may be too soft, but sometimes I rather whatch a non-perfect matched dance routine but a lively group that's sharing responsabilities.

Don't be discouraged from these discussions just because I don't agree with your views. I'm pretty sure most fans support your views more than my views. I believe most fans still haven't gotten pass the Orange Caramel image Pledis created for Raina so I don't think very much people are going to agree with my opinion about Raina. I do like the fact that Kahi was a strict teacher. The fact that she's not willing to let mistakes slip is necessary for the quality performances After School are well known for. I do support Kahi taking Bekah's parts if Kahi feels she's the perfect person for them but like I've said and demonstrated, Kahi doesn't hog all Bekah's parts. Bekah's parts are distributed among the other members as well.

After Kahi's graduation the newest members(i.e. E-young and Kaeun) still haven't impressed me with their vocals yet and Kaeun is suppose to have the greatest vocal ability among the trainees. Within the same amount of time Kaeun has been in After School. I've already seen Lizzy(who's not really known for her vocals) out stage Raina in vocal proficiency. I know most people(mostly new fans or Raina fans) aren't going to agree with me but there are performances where Lizzy has clearly out staged Raina and if people are going to challenge me on it I can easily prove it.

I'm not exactly a fan of perfection either. I like seeing Soyoung kick her shoe across the stage in that Ah performance, Bekah and Kahi dropping their drum stick for Let Do It performances and Lizzy messing up dance routines but I think those last few Flash Back performances would make people question whether After School can actually dance.


Last edited by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fix grammar and spelling mistakes)

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:44 pm

Jayden wrote:Right now, for example, we would probably need someone who can tie the different generations of After School together -- senior enough to be respected by the seniors, but caring enough so that the juniors don't feel neglected or afraid to approach the leader. We also need someone who can ideally project the image of After School to the public. Somehow After School just doesn't seem to be having that break through they need. They're reasonably popular, with plenty of endorsement deals, but they need a truly unique concept to grab everyone again. The leader should probably be someone who isn't afraid to try something entirely new and unconventional.

I want to see hip hop Raina lead After School as a rapper(hmmm.... but who's going to take over as the main vocalist?) and After School comeback with a hip hop concept. I think this drastic contract between Raina's fierce rapper image and the cute OC image will definitely grab the Kpop world's attention. I've seen Raina try to promote her rapping many times on shows and interviews throughout the years (getting kind of sick of hearing Run It and yes Chris Brown is a douchebag) and I think if people are willing to let her develop her rapping I think she'll do a very good job. Hidden inside Raina there's a rapper struggling to break out. I think it's time Playgirlz/Playboyz recognize Raina's many potentials. I also want to see Raina's piano skills promoted. I like hearing the piano in rock/pop songs. Seeing E-young on the electric guitar, Raina on the piano and another member on the drums in a band would be awesome and a great way to help promote After School. Under Raina's leadership and encouragement from fans I can see all this happening. I think Raina has the smarts and ambition to achieve all this. The only things holding her back is her Orange Caramel image, fans and Pledis.



Oh.... and the name Raina means to give strength... very befitting for a leader don't you think? Raina is more than that cute little girl people what to hug and take care off. Raina is strong like her voice and I'm very sure she can take care of herself as well as After School.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by OKDR on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:02 am

Nah I am not discouraged because, at the end of the day, Pledis keeps doing what they feel like XD

E-Young has vocal material, but she's kind of gone backwards ever since enetering the group? She sounded promising in Wonder Boy, but with the performances of First Love, she sounded too unstable. Not taking the part she sung on top of the pole as reference, she seems too shy. Her pre-debut performance of Work It Out was pitchy and lacked some smoothness and feel, yet she showed she does have or had a voice to work with.

Kaeun does sound more estable, I like her raps too. But well, Lime went to HV and she was probably on line to become AS' next rapper.

Her or Nicole, but Nicole was a bit problematic. I am not saying this out of fans speculations but because of her tweets and attitude on those. She reacted so badly when she wasn't picked up for HV, yet she did it again when Kaeun was put into AS. It seems she was next on line but the group wanted someone with a better skill on Japanese so they chose Kaeun instead. She went bersek afterwards and left the company.

The thing is, we don't get to know that much about the other trainees. Kyungmin seems to have a good enough voice, but we don't really know where she went or if she's still a trainee.

Raina has rap skills but if she raps, then we need another main, as it's been said, and while I trust Lizzy, maybe she wouldn't fit the role. I don't know because the only real main I've seen her do was in a cover OC did of an English song that I've already forgot, and she was the one not only getting the English better but also sounding more estable among them 3.

And probably what the group also needs now is another skilled dancer who's able to watch out for their routine troubles.

But even with that, the trouble doesn't just reside on having a great concept that can captivate the viewers. Viewers weren't that much in bad terms with Flashback or even the pole dancing concept, but in order for those to win something, they need some continuity.

When their first mutizens (and only mutizens) came, it was after 9 months of them promoting different music. Audiences were more familiar with them, even having added 3 different members ever since AH! and losing So Young. So they could be more for rooting them on those TV shows.

The sells for them aren't bad either, but when it comes to prizes, there's more support needed.

Notice how most of the girl groups who'd been winning lately (Crayon Pop aside), have been coming back often. AoA just won today, even SPICA could win sometime next week, and K-netizens and media often say they are so much underrated.

Taking out CP because they trully had a summer hit that took a month to rise, but now they will forever feel that pressure of living up to the Bar Bar Bar concept standards. They literally went from not having enough TV time and performing on the streets, to be everywhere and winning trophys. Chrome surely has a huge challenge for their upcoming come back.

AS does needs that much of coming back every 3 months, or trying follow up songs like the rookies of Pledis did last year, to get themselves better exposed out there.

Right now, aside from keeping the harmony among the members, I do believe they need a leader ready to fight for that. They do have promotions all year long performing overseas and such, but not music releases on their own country.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:13 pm

OKDR wrote:When their first mutizens (and only mutizens) came, it was after 9 months of them promoting different music. Audiences were more familiar with them, even having added 3 different members ever since AH! and losing So Young. So they could be more for rooting them on those TV shows.

The sells for them aren't bad either, but when it comes to prizes, there's more support needed.

Notice how most of the girl groups who'd been winning lately (Crayon Pop aside), have been coming back often. AoA just won today, even SPICA could win sometime next week, and K-netizens and media often say they are so much underrated.

......

AS does needs that much of coming back every 3 months, or trying follow up songs like the rookies of Pledis did last year, to get themselves better exposed out there.

Right now, aside from keeping the harmony among the members, I do believe they need a leader ready to fight for that. They do have promotions all year long performing overseas and such, but not music releases on their own country.

I agree, the frustrating thing for me is that I'm not a fan of their Japanese work but their Japanese promotions seems to be so successful. Pledis' joint venture with YUEHUA probably means we'll being seeing less Korean comebacks in the future but from the tens of millions of views I've heard they've been getting on YinYueTai, it sounds like they'll do very well in China. I'm not a mandopop fan so I feel like I'm left in a pretty crappy position. There doesn't seem to be much of a market in Korea for them anymore.

I was disappointed when Juyeon said she wanted to earn more money by staying in Japan more doing Japanese activities but she did mention she wanted to do a concept where they can wear sneakers onstage and Jung Ah did mention she prefer doing the old AS songs like Diva and Ah oppose to the newer AS songs if the opportunity comes so I'm happy that at least After School still remember the fans that were calling for concepts like their earlier days.

Looking at their Japanese promotion and the comments from some fans it appears a majority of the fans really like the Japanese promotions, a lot of fans don't like their earlier Korean concepts and some just prefer all their Japanese songs over their Korean ones. If that really is the case then I don't blame Pledis or After School for wanting to promote in Japan more.

I want After School to have frequent Korean comebacks too but it's the support of the fans that's required to make it happen not just the leader. A suggestion was made to create Korean versions of their Japanese songs for their comebacks. I guess in theory if their Korean songs are similar to their Japanese ones then the current fandom will have more incentive to support After School Korean promotions. That sounds like it'll work.....I thought it was bad enough that After School is having one Korean comeback a year but now people are proposing to taint that Korean comeback with their Japanese material.  Mad 

Guys, is there some sort of conspiracy to turn After School into a full Japanese band that I'm not aware of? I'm kind of feeling like I'm being slowly pushed out of the fandom (fair enough, I did lash out at the fandom pretty badly when I got frustrated over the lack of support from the fandom for Kahi's comeback) but I guess it can't be helped with the way the current fandom is. Most of the people who share similar interests to me are now ex-fans congregating at the old AS videos and I guess most of the people who think of Kahi as highly as me are also there.

@OKDR, I think Raina is ready for that fight you mentioned. If you review videos and interviews of her throughout these years I think you'll see that's she's very strong headed and very ambitious. But even if she does become the leader I think this fandom is going to be what will hold her back.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by K-kitsune on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:27 pm

I think something else to consider is live performances. Usually the leader takes a center role in dance formations. Kahi obviously took this role, and Jungah has followed suit. I don't see Raina adopting this position at all really. To be honest, only Nana & Uee could realistically take this commanding role in formations and AS is FAR MORE a dance/performance group than a singing group.

Kahi is the toughest act to follow because she wore so many hats, and in a way Jungah is too because she is a strong singer AND dancer, and gave her own compassionate, Omma spin to leading. I like Raina but if she does end up becoming leader I think the role will change entirely.

We'll see I guess!
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:15 am

K-kitsune wrote:I think something else to consider is live performances. Usually the leader takes a center role in dance formations. Kahi obviously took this role, and Jungah has followed suit. I don't see Raina adopting this position at all really. To be honest, only Nana & Uee could realistically take this commanding role in formations and AS is FAR MORE a dance/performance group than a singing group.

Kahi is the toughest act to follow because she wore so many hats, and in a way Jungah is too because she is a strong singer AND dancer, and gave her own compassionate, Omma spin to leading. I like Raina but if she does end up becoming leader I think the role will change entirely.

We'll see I guess!

I agree the leader usually does take the center role in dance formations and I do see Kahi at the center of the dance formations a lot but I also see someone 2nd to Kahi at the center of those dance formations and I think a majority of this fandom has been under estimating her for a long time.

I've selected random BoY, Bang, Shampoo and Flash Back MV to demonstrated my point.

The following times for the videos are the amount of time the member appear at the center of the dance formation or is at the front with the focus. Some of the camera angle make it had to see who's at the center sometimes so there maybe some inaccuracies but I think a majority of it is correct.


0:12 to 1:11 Kahi 59 seconds.
1:11 to 1:41 Raina 30 seconds.
1:41 to 1:48 Uee 7 seconds.
1:48 to 1:56 Juyeon 8 seconds.
1:56 to 2:12 Kahi 6 seconds.
2:12 to 2:27 Bekah 15 seconds.
2:27 to 3:06 Uee 29. This was very annoying. Uee was at the center of the formation but for a majority of the time Raina was singing but the camera still films Uee and I didn't like the expressions on Uee's face.
3:06 to 3:12 Nana 6 seconds.
3:12 to 3:28 Jung Ah 14 seconds.
3:28 to 3:57 Raina 29 seconds.
3:58 to 4:01 Kahi 3 seconds.
For this performance #1 Kahi with 68 secs, #2 Raina with 59 secs and #3 Uee.



0:00 to 0:26 Kahi 26 seconds.
0:26 to 0:30 Rain 4 seconds.
0:30 to 0:34 Nana + Lizzy 4 seconds.
0:34 to 0:38 Jung Ah 4 seconds.
0:38 to 1:06 Juyeon 28 seconds.
1:06 to 1:10 Kahi 4 seconds.
1:10 to 1:14 Nana + Lizzy 4 seconds.
1:14 to 1:25 Jung Ah 11 seconds.
1:25 to 1:30 Kahi + Jung Ah 5 seconds.
1:30 to 1:50 Bekah 20 seconds.
1:50 to 1:57 Kahi 7 seconds.
1:57 to 2:06 Raina 9 seconds.
2:06 to 2:13 Kahi 7 seconds.
2:13 to 2:33 Raina 20 seconds.
2:33 to 2:40 Kahi + Nana 7 seconds.
2:40 to 3:01 Kahi 21 seconds.

Uee was not at this performance but when shes does do the live Bang performance she doesn't sing much anyway. Uee's part is taken over by Nana and Lizzy near the start.

For this performance #1 Kahi 77 seconds, #2 Rain 33 seconds, #3 Juyeon with 28 seconds.



0:00 to 0:23 Uee 23 seconds.
0:23 to 0:31 Nana 8 seconds.
0:31 to 0:37 E-young 6 seconds.
0:37 to 0:45 Uee 8 seconds.
0:45 to 0:52 Bekah 7 seconds.
0:52 to 1:00 Raina 8 seconds.
1:00 to 1:016 Jung Ah 16 seconds.
1:16 to 1:23 Juyeon 7 seconds.
1:23 to 1:31 Nana 8 seconds.
1:31 to 1:38 Bekah 7 seconds.
1:38 to 1:45 Lizzy 7 seconds.
1:45 to 1:53 Jung Ah 8 seconds.
1:53 to 2:10 Raina 7 seconds.
2:10 to 2:23 Jung Ah 13 seconds.
2:23 to 2:31 Kahi 8 seconds.
2:31 to 2:39 Uee 8 seconds.
2:39 to 3:09 Raina 30 seconds.
3:09 to 3:27 Kahi 18 seconds.
For this performance #1 Raina 45 seconds, #2 Uee 39 seconds, #3 Jung Ah 37 seconds



0:00 to 0:07 Nana 7 seconds.
0:07 to 0:14 Lizzy 7 seconds.
0:14 to 0:22 Nana 8 seconds.
0:22 to 0:30 Raina 8 seconds.
0:30 to 0:37 Uee 7 seconds.
0:37 to 0:45 Jung Ah 8 seconds.
0:45 to 0:52 Nana 7 seconds.
0:52 to 1:03 Raina 11 seconds.
1:03 to 1:07 Uee 4 seconds.
1:07 to 1:10 Juyeon 3 seconds.
1:10 to 1:15 Kaeun 5 seconds.
1:15 to 1:26 Jung Ah 11 seconds.
1:26 to 1:32 Juyeon 6 seconds.
1:32 to 1:38 E-young 6 seconds.
1:38 to 1:51 Jung Ah 13 seconds.
1:51 to 2:02 Lizzy 11 seconds.
2:02 to 2:10 Raina 8 seconds.
2:10 to 2:17 Nana 7 seconds.
2:17 to 2:46 Jung Ah 19 seconds.
2:46 to 3:07 Raina 21 seconds.
3:07 to 3:13 Kaeun 6 seconds.
For this performance #1 Raina 48 seconds, #2 Jung Ah 38 seconds, #3 Nana 29 seconds.


As you can see Raina has been more at the center of dance formations a lot more than the other current members and my impression is that she's 2nd to Kahi. As for whether Raina actually will become the leader after Jung Ah? Who knows. I'm very fond of Jung Ah even if I don't think much of her leadership skill and I don't want to see her graduate for a long time.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by OKDR on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:02 am

I wouldn't be annoyed if the center role went to someone who wasn't the leader. Some groups can work that out. Like having a dance lead the same you have a vocal lead.
However, Raina's dance skills aren't that bad either.


For Japanese promotions. It's tricky. AVEX is one of the labels that makes their signed acts to fullfill their contracts. Usually releases are planned in those contracts, that's why most acts get dropped after having released all the stuff planned and people get confused because you have them releasing one day, disbanding the next. Others who want to leave to become indie or switch labels also need to do that.

Sony quite works similar, but I've seen Sony cancel and delay more single releases than AVEX does.

Whenever a Japanese label drops a BEST/GH for an act who doesn't currently get top5 or top10, you can start fearing for its deal to expire soon.

AS still may get a renewal, thought, because despite not expanding their niche from top10 (mostly #7 always with their last releases), they still do good enough for the half-arsed promos they do (believe me, they hardly promote there compared to what other J-Pop acts, popular and non-popular do). I've seen some improvement on this last release thought, choosing shows were really popular acts like The Second or AKB48 members went. That's better than the last 2 releases, the best show for them to be exposed I remember now was Hey! Hey! Hey! Music Camp. I still want to see them do a Music Station some day.

I am opposed to translating songs into one language or another. If they did actually arrange the songs, I would have no troubles with it, but they don't. Yet, Rip OFF was quite good because Jung Ah re-did the lyrics, Bang! fit because they changed the rhythm of the instrumental, DIVA... it could been done better. I had nothing against them tuning down the hyped Korean beat, because the J-Pop market is different, but the whole image, I think the only I liked were the tu-tus and I don't believe those matched the song either.

I don't dislike their last productions, I actually loved Flashback how it was, I love even more the whole album for First Love, yet the title track could be better, I guess. It didn't do that bad, remember they were competing for the first spot, if I don't remember it wrong, for both come backs. The problem is they do need more continuity for the rest of the audience to finally believe they can vote online for them, purchase the music, etc.

I wouldn't get them re-doing songs from one market to another, the thing I respect a lot for both AS and 4Minute is the fact they don't do the same shitty thing SM and other companies do with their songs and, on the other hand, we get more songs from them.

Another trouble with their J-Pop releases is that J-Pop is not just one genre, is diverse, is variated, they've just tried a couple of those genres inside J-Pop, mostly Electro-Dance and Mellow-Pop. The songs with Shinichi Osawa brought in a different side but Shhh is another Electro track, more UK-ish though.

There's a deeper R&B niche in Japan that's been on ever since the late 1980's it would be nice for them to explore once or twice.

Then there's a different way to do ballads, people usually love them, but the best things from most of the Johnny's groups are their ballads. I don't ask them to go Kinki Kids, but Arashi and V6 have really nice tracks and a diverse type of Pop they surely could pull out if they tried, instead of having candy slow jams like Slow Love (which I do like, but to get some versatility from them it would be nice). That meant for the Japanese market, mostly. I don't think it would work for the Korean Market that much.

Anyway, it doesn't matter because whenever they do something different, the complaints are louder than the good comments.





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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by heartnana_95 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:22 pm

Ohh this is difficult. I personally love Jung-ah as leader, but she does seem a bit passive, like I really can't see her being strict with the members because she is too sweet lol.

I would probably pick Nana. I mean she's Kahi's prodigy! Anyways she is really disciplined, and knows how to work hard. Also if you watched when AS was on Weekly Idol, and during the Random Dance Segment she really looked like the leader watching all of the members and the dancing closely. She is also very VERY popular and the modeling and appearances that she does can bring a lot more recognition to After School.

The problem is that she is younger than a lot of the members and that might cause some problems, I might have chosen Uee but she is always busy with her dramas and misses a lot of performances.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Potential Next Leader

Post by Mbi on Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:29 pm

Ok after reading through all the previous posts (especially from OKDR and Adam [ I did skip through a few parts because gosh that was really alot of text.. sorry about that]), I finally found someone who doesn't like their Japanese works as much as their Korean ones! Haha.. You know, I feel that they seem to be focusing too much on their Japanese works for my liking. But if that's where the money is then I guess I'll have to deal with it.

Also, on a side note, I know that ASD is more for international AS fans, but am I like the only guy who understands a little Korean here? Just wondering.

Okay back to topic. I personally do agree that Raina has the capabilities and the ambitious nature to be a good leader. And I'm not saying this just because I love her to bits. Because personally, I would prefer the next leader of AS to be Jooyeon. I couple of things I do agree with the things mentioned are that Raina was the only one who spoke up when JungAh expressed that she would be next to graduate. I was quite affected by that part when I first watched it.

I never really took note of other individual times where Raina did something that I was really impressed with (Probably because I would account it to the fact that I'm too biased) but from what has been discussed, it seems like Raina does have a lot of potential to be the leader of AS. But I'm not sure if its the NEXT one. Jayden's idea of Nana taking over as leader of OC if Raina becomes leader of AS did seem to be a nice idea. So Raina and Nana can boss each other when they are promoting for AS and OC. Haha..

So my choice is Jooyeon for the next leader. Why so? Probably because she would be the last original member of AS. But also because I feel that she can connect well with the rest of the group, even with E-Young and Kaeun. As for any other qualities, I think Adam said it really well. I especially like how you said that "Juyeon isn't really good at anything except for trolling". HAHA. Really couldn't have said it better myself. But I also agree with "but I guess she could delegate tasks to people who are better qualified to perform them", simply due to her seniority, and its not in a bad way because she can maintain close relationships with the members but she is also at the same time respected for being the Unnie.
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