[DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

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[DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:49 pm

I've seen some negative comments from fans accusing Kahi of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip. While I very strongly disagree with these comments, I am very grateful for the honesty fan have shown in presenting them. I know some fans won’t agree with my opinions but that’s OK. I want to know what fans think about Kahi and what’s their opinion on this topic. If there are any more opinions about Kahi, I hope we can use the discussion forum to talk more about it.

Even though, 1) Kahi does hold a significant portion of the lines in After School songs, 2) for certain songs after Bekah's graduation, Kahi did take most or all of Bekahs lines and 3) fans have been saying that Kahi asked for all of Bekahs lines when she graduated. None of these factors constitute as valid arguments against Kahi’s integrity.

Kahi may hold a significant portion of the lines in After School songs but this doesn't prove that Kahi is a selfish line hogger going on a power trip. The credibility of these claims that since Kahi is the leader therefore she must be responsible for the lines distributions is questionable when you consider that when After School and Brave Brothers were on KBS’ Win Win, Brave Brothers made it very clear that he won’t give a member a single line in a song if he doesn't think that they could sing a single line. From this interview it is very clear that the producers are responsible for the line distribution, that or they have a significant influence on who sings what lines. Those accusing Kahi have yet to provide anything concrete to prove Kahi used her leadership status to influence the line distributions for selfish motives.

For certain After School songs like Ah and Diva, Kahi did either take a large portion of or all of Bekah’s lines after Bekah graduated, but this doesn’t prove that Kahi is selfish.  Who’s responsible for giving those lines to Kahi is still under question and even if Kahi did give those lines to herself I don’t see what the problem is if Kahi thinks she can perform Bekah’s lines the best. I think the most important thing is that the song is performed well.  I don’t think Kahi performed Bekah’s raps too well during some performances such as the Premium Party Bang! Bang! Bang! Diva performance (her English wasn’t very good and when she performed her own rap after Bekah’s, she sounded out of breath) but when they performed Diva during the Korean Music Wave festival in Bangkok, Lizzy took the first half of Bekah’s rap (i.e. the English parts) so as you can see Kahi didn't always take all of Bekah’s raps if she can’t perform them very well. After Bekah graduated, her lines were distributed among other members as well. For example, during the Premium Party Bang! Bang! Bang! Because of You performance, Nana gets given all of Bekah’s lines so there is no sound basis I can see for fans to be accusing Kahi of being a selfish line hogger.

Apparently fans have been saying that Kahi asked for all of Bekah’s lines after Bekah graduated. I've been in a lot of debates with fans and a lot of fans like to assert their opinions as facts without providing any proof. If there isn’t any actual evidence for this (e.g. twitter references, news articles etc.) then this does not constitute as a valid argument against Kahi’s integrity because 1) it still isn’t proven and 2) even if it is proven there is still a need to prove that Kahi asked for all of Bekah’s lines out of selfishness.


Last edited by PlayboyzAdam on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by Redboi675 on Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:16 am

The thing is with Kahi, she's the Korean version of Nicole Scherzinger (lead singer from Pussy Cat Dolls).

At first I was sad when she graduated but honestly, seeing how things are now, I have never loved After School more as there seems to be more distribution of spotlight and lines. Not only that but the group's dynamic has changed, they have become more sultry and feminine thanks to JungAh's influence. They are also able to pull off more concepts, as great as Kahi is, she wouldn't have fit in with the First Love and Heaven concepts because she actually has a strong masculine energy to her.... She was uncomfortable to watch in Lady Luck, trying to be cute as that's not her style.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:29 pm

Redboi675 wrote:
At first I was sad when she graduated but honestly, seeing how things are now, I have never loved After School more as there seems to be more distribution of spotlight and lines.


I'm not sure what you mean by more distribution of spotlight and lines but if you're trying to say after Kahi graduated After School seems to have more equal distribution of spotlight and lines(which is what I've seen fans claiming) then see the evidence below for the truth.

Here's my reply to someone claiming on Youtube that within the first minute of First Love all 8 members had fair equal singing lines.

"actually during the first 1 minute only 4 members got solo parts and Nana's part was about twice as long as the others. I've just did a line distribution analysis on the song and here are some interesting facts. LOL, they spend a significant amount of time singing Nana's name(about 30% of the actual song). Raina has the most sole time(34 seconds), Jung Ah has the seconds most solo time(28 seconds), Nana has about 22 seconds of solo lines, Kaeun has about 15 seconds and Lizzy, UEE, Juyeon have about 10 to 11 seconds."

EDIT: I accidentally left E-young out of what I just said but she only had about 11 seconds of lines in First Love.

The following is taken from a post I made on the Potential Next Leader thread to demonstrate how Raina has always been in the centre of dance formation for a significant amount of time but I've edited it to show the total amount of time the other members spend in the spot light as well.


0:00 to 0:07 Nana 7 seconds.
0:07 to 0:14 Lizzy 7 seconds.
0:14 to 0:22 Nana 8 seconds.
0:22 to 0:30 Raina 8 seconds.
0:30 to 0:37 Uee 7 seconds.
0:37 to 0:45 Jung Ah 8 seconds.
0:45 to 0:52 Nana 7 seconds.
0:52 to 1:03 Raina 11 seconds.
1:03 to 1:07 Uee 4 seconds.
1:07 to 1:10 Juyeon 3 seconds.
1:10 to 1:15 Kaeun 5 seconds.
1:15 to 1:26 Jung Ah 11 seconds.
1:26 to 1:32 Juyeon 6 seconds.
1:32 to 1:38 E-young 6 seconds.
1:38 to 1:51 Jung Ah 13 seconds.
1:51 to 2:02 Lizzy 11 seconds.
2:02 to 2:10 Raina 8 seconds.
2:10 to 2:17 Nana 7 seconds.
2:17 to 2:46 Jung Ah 19 seconds.
2:46 to 3:07 Raina 21 seconds.
3:07 to 3:13 Kaeun 6 seconds.
For this performance #1 Raina 48 seconds, #2 Jung Ah 38 seconds, #3 Nana 29 seconds, #4 Lizzy 18 seconds, #5 Uee 11 seconds, #5 Kaeun 11 seconds, #6 Juyeon 9 seconds, #7 E-young 6 seconds


For First Love, Raina had the most solo lines(34 seconds in total) while Lizzy, UEE, Juyeon have about 10 to 11 seconds. That's a differences of about 23-24 seconds. From the Flash Back performance Raina spent the most time in the spot light with 48 seconds and E-young spent the least amount of time in the spotlight with 6 seconds. That's a differences of 42 seconds.
Since Kahi graduate their amount of time in the spot light and the line distribution among the members still isn't close to being equal and yet fans are still claiming that After School members are getting equal line distributions and time in the spotlight because Kahi has graduated.


Redboi675 wrote:Not only that but the group's dynamic has changed, they have become more sultry and feminine thanks to JungAh's influence. They are also able to pull off more concepts, as great as Kahi is, she wouldn't have fit in with the First Love and Heaven concepts because she actually has a strong masculine energy to her.... She was uncomfortable to watch in Lady Luck, trying to be cute as that's not her style.

When I discovered After School in 2009 they possessed many qualities that made them unique and one of these qualities that immediately grab my attentions that I've treasured the most from After School was that feeling of self empowerment they showed which highly contrasted with the mainstream needy girly/cute concepts. I'm not a fan of needy girly/cute concepts(this is an under statement). So when Avex started promoting After School in Japan in 2011 and throughout 2012 I watched in horror as Avex changed After School's images to everything I h8 about Kpop.

Lady Luck offends me in so many ways; everything from the concept, to the crappy MV and the Samantha Thavasa bag product placements in their performances. Seeing Kahi(who for me stood as a symbol of strength and self empowerment) be reduce this girly vulnerable image sickened me. GOD I H8 AVEX SO MUCH RIGHT NOW. I know Kahi has a  vulnerable/cute/girly/dorky side but onstage that's not what I wanted to see because that's not who Kahi is and wants to be onstage, that side of her should have only been saved for variety shows. So when I found out Kahi about was going to graduate that was the best piece of new I heard from After School in a long time, I've had enough of Avex. Obviously I didn't think things through back then because now I miss Kahi.
 
As you can see not everyone in this fandom thinks the change in the group's dynamic is a good thing. After School has loss its best dancer, an awesome rapper, my favourite lyricist in the group and an awesome leader. Jung Ah's incompetence as a leader has already been demonstrated in performances and even mentioned by the members in Weekly Idol. I don't see any positive gain(except I really H8 AVEX and I don't want to see Kahi have anything to do with them) from Kahi's graduation.

I fear now that Kahi is gone, After School isn't going to attract any more fans that'll valued the qualities I saw in After School during their debute days. To make things worse(for me at least) After School is now attracting fans that prefer the girly/cute image Avex created for After School and this appears to be the majority of the fandom right now. One of my biggest concerns when After School started their Japanese promotions was that because of Avex, this fandom would change and the qualities I value the most from After School would no longer be valued by this fandom and this fandom would start pressuring After School to change to be more like the image Avex created... LOL, judging by the comments I've seen in these forums and Youtube, it's definitely happening and there's nothing I can do expect laugh at the situation.

All After School members have mentioned that they want to do a hip hop concept for their next comeback this year and given a choice of Diva, Shampoo and Flash Back they said they prefer to do Diva. LOL, this fandom may have severely changed throughout these years but as you can see the After School right now is still very much at heart the After School I was captivate by. This fandom can have their songs and comebacks, I don't care anymore. I still have my After School and Kahi. After School's songs maybe what initially brought my attention to them but it's their personalities and who they are off stage that makes me follow and love them.

Also I think After School became more sultry and feminine because of the composers, lyricist and choreographers not because Jung Ah was the leader. I'm not going to talk about Heaven unless someone starts a thread about it but in general I think the work Avex produces is rubbish and over priced(no offence). As for Kahi not fitting in with the First Love concept because of her strong masculine energy, I disagree. In Kahi's Come Back You Bad Person you'll see that Kahi is very capable of being sultry and feminine. LOL, I use to h8 Kahi's Come Back You Bad Person. But I started liking it because it reminded me of Kahi and I can identify with the lyrics. I want Kahi back in After School or at least to be working with After School.


Last edited by PlayboyzAdam on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by wowous on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:46 am

Well if this is about Kahi stealing all the lines and shading the other members, then my answer is yes and no.

Their songs are mostly composed by Brave Brothers, and whats know about him besides that he's shady is that "he distributes the lines for the members that fit them most. " When I first heard this I was offended because Kahi had some rap parts that could have totally gone to Bekah back in the day, but if you think about it, Brave Bros always seem to put the center... in the center. Meaning that if the popular one can sing, they should(Uee can't so she didn't. even tho she had more lines than juyeon on BoY).

And as for Kahi fitting in with First Love, I don't think so. Even if she changed her image, her voice would sound weird with the song, and imo she would look really out of place. She looked really awkward during Shampoo, on which she didn't have as much lines too. But I can totally see her doing 8 hot girls tho.

To put it simply, I blame the lines on Brave Bros at first. As for stealing Bekah's lines, if she really asked for them then I agree that was a selfish move even if it has sentimental value or something(most of them are in english so Lizzy should have done most instead of just one). I think she's better off solo though - personally I like After School better than Kahi and friends.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:01 am

wowous wrote:Well if this is about Kahi stealing all the lines and shading the other members, then my answer is yes and no.

I didn't really intent this topic to be about Kahi stealing all the lines and shading the other members per se, it was suppose to be about fans accusing Kahi of being a selfish line hogger without any concrete proof. So I was hoping fan were going to start providing me with actual evidence against Kahi or make new arguments against Kahi I haven't heard of yet. But I actually welcome any discussion about Kahi Very Happy I think the misunderstanding comes from the title of the topic. I'll fit in later.

wowous wrote:And as for Kahi fitting in with First Love, I don't think so. Even if she changed her image, her voice would sound weird with the song, and imo she would look really out of place. She looked really awkward during Shampoo, on which she didn't have as much lines too. But I can totally see her doing 8 hot girls tho.

To put it simply, I blame the lines on Brave Bros at first. As for stealing Bekah's lines, if she really asked for them then I agree that was a selfish move even if it has sentimental value or something(most of them are in english so Lizzy should have done most instead of just one). I think she's better off solo though - personally I like After School better than Kahi and friends.
I thought Kahi fit in very well in Shampoo. As for First Love  hmmm.... maybe with Kahi in the group First Love wouldn't be so sultry and feminine which is what I prefer. Also pole dancing doesn't have to be sultry and feminine, all the female pole dancing acts I've seen on Australia's got talent aren't sultry or feminine. I still think Kahi's feminine voice parts in Come Back You Bad Person fits in First Love but maybe if Kahi had more time to practice being sultry and feminine she can pull it of better, who knows. Raina use to spend 5 hours a day practising Orange Caramel expressions in front of the mirror and now she's so good she can pull an Orange Caramel expression in her sleep(according to Raina in an interview last year anyway). Apparently she's so good I would say it has backfired on her because now fans think that's who she really is which is what lead to my intense debate about Raina's personality on Youtube and those posts I've made about her in the Potential Next Leader thread. If Raina can change her image like that I don't see why Kahi can't(honestly I don't want her to), I'm just saying.

Keep in mind the definition of selfish. Just being able to providing concrete proof that she did ask for Bekah's lines only proves she asked for Bekah's lines and nothing else. After fans find concrete proof that she did ask for Bekah's lines, fans still need to prove that Kahi's motives for doing so are selfish.

After Kahi graduated it has been Raina and friends but I'm not hearing anyone complain about that. If you've seen the first part of my previous post(sadly I don't blame you if you skipped a lot of it, tl;dr?) you'll see that after Kahi's graduation Raina took most of the lines and the majority of the spotlight as well. Also after Kahi graduated the line distribution and spotlight sharing time among members is far from being equal, unlike how fans have been claiming.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by wowous on Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:14 pm

Well if we don't have any proof, then this whole topic wouldn't even make any sense, in a way.

Raina was the main vocal ever since her debut, and had the most lines since then, even with Kahi. I strongly oppose to the amount of lines given to her(esp. on Rip Off), but the line distribution can't be equal, with or without her. Sadly Juyeon and Uee can't hold a note, and I don't even know why Nana's getting more lines recently. However, Bekah was supposed to be the main rapper, yet Kahi seemed to have more rap lines than she??? I never understood that. But I don't blame her, I mean its not like she got on her knees and begged to be on the spotlight she was put in. Same goes for Raina.

Anyway, we don't have any proof for anything. All we're doing is theorizing really.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:48 pm

wowous wrote:Well if we don't have any proof, then this whole topic wouldn't even make any sense, in a way.
What I've said is that fans have not provided proof or any valid arguments against Kahi. I never said there's no proof. As I've stated the point of this topic was for fans to provided proof against Kahi or provide new arguments against Kahi so we can discuss about it. I'm actually happy just talking about Kahi here in general to be honest. It'll be good to see some comments saying that they don't think Kahi is a selfish line hogger so I don't feel so out of place in this fandom.

wowous wrote:Anyway, we don't have any proof for anything. All we're doing is theorizing really.
I don't think you're in a position to be speaking on behalf of the rest of the fandom. I do believe some of you are theorizing and I have no problems with that however some of you are just slandering Kahi and I do have problems with that. I have yet to see any proof or valid arguments against Kahi and fans have already jump to labelling her as a selfish line hogger. To make things worse fans are deluding themselves with the idea that since Kahi has left everyone has been getting equal lines and time in the spotlight and using this as a justification for why it is good that she's gone. What really annoys me the most is that fans are happy to see her gone because Kahi doesn't fit with some of After School's later concepts. This idea that it's good that a member is gone just because they don't fit in a concept is strange to me. Am I the only one here that thinks the concepts should be made to fit the group not the other way round?

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by Redboi675 on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:50 pm

PlayboyzAdam wrote:
As you can see not everyone in this fandom thinks the change in the group's dynamic is a good thing. After School has loss its best dancer, an awesome rapper, my favourite lyricist in the group and an awesome leader. Jung Ah's incompetence as a leader has already been demonstrated in performances and even mentioned by the members in Weekly Idol. I don't see any positive gain(except I really H8 AVEX and I don't want to see Kahi have anything to do with them) from Kahi's graduation.

I fear now that Kahi is gone, After School isn't going to attract any more fans that'll valued the qualities I saw in After School during their debute days. To make things worse(for me at least) After School is now attracting fans that prefer the girly/cute image Avex created for After School and this appears to be the majority of the fandom right now. One of my biggest concerns when After School started their Japanese promotions was that because of Avex, this fandom would change and the qualities I value the most from After School would no longer be valued by this fandom and this fandom would start pressuring After School to change to be more like the image Avex created... LOL, judging by the comments I've seen in these forums and Youtube, it's definitely happening and there's nothing I can do expect laugh at the situation.

All After School members have mentioned that they want to do a hip hop concept for their next comeback this year and given a choice of Diva, Shampoo and Flash Back they said they prefer to do Diva. LOL, this fandom may have severely changed throughout these years but as you can see the After School right now is still very much at heart the After School I was captivate by. This fandom can have their songs and comebacks, I don't care anymore. I still have my After School and Kahi. After School's songs maybe what initially brought my attention to them but it's their personalities and who they are off stage that makes me follow and love them.

Also I think After School became more sultry and feminine because of the composers, lyricist and choreographers not because Jung Ah was the leader. I'm not going to talk about Heaven unless someone starts a thread about it but in general I think the work Avex produces is rubbish and over priced(no offence). As for Kahi not fitting in with the First Love concept because of her strong masculine energy, I disagree. In Kahi's Come Back You Bad Person you'll see that Kahi is very capable of being sultry and feminine. LOL, I use to h8 Kahi's Come Back You Bad Person. But I started liking it because it reminded me of Kahi and I can identify with the lyrics. I want Kahi back in After School or at least to be working with After School.


Ever since After School debuted it was made clear that they have an admissions and graduation system therefore each member is essentially on 'borrowed time,' and it has been 2 years since Kahi graduated so I feel that you should really get over it by now. I understand that she IS After School but she did dominate the group too much. It's sad how E-Young was shafted, she's still neglected but she at least gets more lines and her popularity is starting to increase. I feel that Kaeun probably would have been neglected too, maybe not as much as E-Young. The whole purpose of After School was to give talented women the opportunity to become stars and serve as a stepping stone in their careers, being a back-up dancer for Kahi ft. Raina would not have helped. Seeing Kahi perform with After School really did help me to appreciate her graduation.

I also feel your attack on Jung-Ah as a leader was uncalled for. I think she's a good fit for the role because she's not a dictator like Kahi seemed to be. It's no secret that members probably get along much better with JungAh as she's more nurturing and seems more caring, hence the 'omma' nickname. Also Kahi did shade the rest of her ex-band members by saying she doesn't talk to them besides Nana, or something to that effect.

I have been around on a few different forums, blogs and all over their youtube videos, so I know that Lady Luck was hated whereas Dilly Dally was loved. However their image in Korea and Japan have no correlation. In Korea they have a more sexy, fierce and glamourous style. Whereas in Japan their image is more calculated in terms of being more refined. Ever since the Japanese version of Bang they have gained attention for their style and clearly Avex knows this and that's probably why there is an emphasis on their visuals i.e. Dress To Kill.
Musically-speaking, Heaven was extremely well-received and they definitely gained a few more fans from that release. Shinichi Osawa is pretty amazing and the fact that After School managed to work with him is a blessing. Shh and Heaven are among their best Japanese releases ever and one of their strongest songs in my opinion. I think After School has found their niche in Japan and it bodes well for them, they are definitely sophisticated in whatever they do. Whilst you may want the old After School style back, it's kind of pointless as the group is completely different than it was in 2009.... Especially since most of the original lineup is gone.

I also agree that Kahi seemed out of place in Shampoo, as did Bekah.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:40 am

Redboi675 wrote:Ever since After School debuted it was made clear that they have an admissions and graduation system therefore each member is essentially on 'borrowed time,'

I'm not sure what you mean by borrowed time? My understanding of the graduation system is that members leave when they choose to leave and during the time they are in After School they are paid not borrowed.

Redboi675 wrote:and it has been 2 years since Kahi graduated so I feel that you should really get over it by now

hmmm...no, within that 2 years after Kahi's graduated she really hasn't been that active and I'm miss seeing her together with After School.

Redboi675 wrote:I understand that she IS After School but she did dominate the group too much. It's sad how E-Young was shafted, she's still neglected but she at least gets more lines and her popularity is starting to increase.

After Kahi graduated E-young only got given about 10-11 seconds in First Love and in Flash Back performance she only got 6 seconds of the spotlight. If you've see my previous posts you'll find that these times are the least out of all the members so you're saying E-young gets more lines compared to what?

Redboi675 wrote:The whole purpose of After School was to give talented women the opportunity to become stars and serve as a stepping stone in their careers, being a back-up dancer for Kahi ft. Raina would not have helped.

Maybe if Pledis was given better support they'll have more resources to invest in promoting the talents of the individual members. There's also the question of opportunity, if you really care that much about E-young how about you take the time to create an After School concept that'll promote E-young more and propose it to Pledis.

Redboi675 wrote:Seeing Kahi perform with After School really did help me to appreciate her graduation.

Why?

Redboi675 wrote:I also feel your attack on Jung-Ah as a leader was uncalled for. I think she's a good fit for the role because she's not a dictator like Kahi seemed to be. It's no secret that members probably get along much better with JungAh as she's more nurturing and seems more caring, hence the 'omma' nickname.

I do feel bad about the stuff I said about Jung Ah but I wasn't attacking her. If I was attacking her then the After School members were also attacking her on Weekly Idol when they said things aren't getting done with Jung Ah being the leader. And what I said about Jung Ah was called for if someone is going to be telling me she makes a better leader than Kahi. Kahi is not a dictator, UEE was a dictator. The fact Kahi is not willing to let mistakes slip is necessary to help the members improve and put on quality performances. UEE's seniority thing was not needed. There are different ways of caring for people just because they got along with Jung Ah better doesn't mean Kahi wasn't caring. Being the leader, Kahi had a lot of responsibilities and that's why the members seek Jung Ah for counsilling and that's why the members get along with Jung Ah better.

Redboi675 wrote:Also Kahi did shade the rest of her ex-band members by saying she doesn't talk to them besides Nana, or something to that effect.

I don't know what you mean by shade. But if shade means excluded then get your facts straight. Kahi said she isn't the type to be the first to contact people but Nana always contacts her so she talks to Nana. Just because Kahi doesn't contact her the members doesn't mean she doesn't care about them. I can identify with Kahi because I'm similar(it's a social problem that I have too).

Redboi675 wrote:Musically-speaking, Heaven was extremely well-received and they definitely gained a few more fans from that release. Shinichi Osawa is pretty amazing and the fact that After School managed to work with him is a blessing. Shh and Heaven are among their best Japanese releases ever and one of their strongest songs in my opinion.

If we are talking about Kpop and Jpop in general then I'm really more of a Jpop fan than a Kpop fan. When I saw that Jpop vs Kpop video featuring Scandal's Shoujo S vs After School's Ah that made me an After School fan, Kpop didn't win. After School won. There's many Jpop artists I listen to but I don't follow them. The only Kpop artists I really following and listen to is After School and Pledis artists. Which sounds strange when I say I h8 After School's Japanese songs and I don't think very highly of Shinichi Osawa either. Jpop is very diverse and while I like a lot of Jpop songs I don't like After School's Jpop songs. It's a matter of personal preferences.

Redboi675 wrote:Whilst you may want the old After School style back, it's kind of pointless as the group is completely different than it was in 2009.... Especially since most of the original lineup is gone.

I can still hope and it's fun to imagine. Who knows, from what I see this fandom has a tendency to underestimate After School and it's members.

Redboi675 wrote:I also agree that Kahi seemed out of place in Shampoo, as did Bekah.

I don't think Kahi and Bekah seemed out of place in Shampoo.


Last edited by PlayboyzAdam on Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by captainsprunchz on Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:16 am

Hey! Wow you guys have really put a lot of work into your discussion! I haven't been very active on the forums, but it's just amazing to see how active our fandom is!!

That said I just have to give a friendly reminder (I hope it's not too lecture-y) about Discussions:

Please remember, we're discussing not debating. I know this can be hard! A little debate-ing here and there can be alright, but it can also be hurtful.

1) First and foremost, DO NOT discount each other's opinions. Instead, encourage discussion by asking questions!  Ask each other to elaborate.

2) Let everyone draw their own conclusions. (I know this can be unsatisfying. But please try.)

So, when posting your opinions please keep these in mind!

Thank you <3 You guys are so smart and passionate! I'm proud to be a Playgirlz with you~!!

(If this doesn't seem correct to you, don't worry! Just let us know at admin@asdaze.com! I'm new to this too~!!)
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by wowous on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:30 pm

PlayboyzAdam wrote:
wowous wrote:Well if we don't have any proof, then this whole topic wouldn't even make any sense, in a way.
What I've said is that fans have not provided proof or any valid arguments against Kahi. I never said there's no proof. As I've stated the point of this topic was for fans to provided proof against Kahi or provide new arguments against Kahi so we can discuss about it. I'm actually happy just talking about Kahi here in general to be honest. It'll be good to see some comments saying that they don't think Kahi is a selfish line hogger so I don't feel so out of place in this fandom.

wowous wrote:Anyway, we don't have any proof for anything. All we're doing is theorizing really.
I don't think you're in a position to be speaking on behalf of the rest of the fandom. I do believe some of you are theorizing and I have no problems with that however some of you are just slandering Kahi and I do have problems with that. I have yet to see any proof or valid arguments against Kahi and fans have already jump to labelling her as a selfish line hogger. To make things worse fans are deluding themselves with the idea that since Kahi has left everyone has been getting equal lines and time in the spotlight and using this as a justification for why it is good that she's gone. What really annoys me the most is that fans are happy to see her gone because Kahi doesn't fit with some of After School's later concepts. This idea that it's good that a member is gone just because they don't fit in a concept is strange to me. Am I the only one here that thinks the concepts should be made to fit the group not the other way round?

First thing's first, I just wanna make it clear that I never blamed Kahi for 'being a line hogger'. Because she isn't. Lets just pretend for a minute that the members actually have a choice on their lines. If Kahi knew she was going to go solo later on, why would she vacuum up so much lines in After School? She didn't need that. She wouldn't need to swallow so much lines in a girlgroup knowing that later on she would have an entire career for herself. But whether or not we like it or we think she deserved it, at a point, she did have more lines than the rest.

And I'm often mislead, I apologize if you got the idea that I was speaking 'for the fandom'. And I'm not happy she left, but I can't deny I like the current lineup even though its Raina, JungAh and the puppies. As much as I liked all the other lineups. I said it already but I'll say it again - there is no possible way to equal line distribution. Or else we wouldn't even have the 'main vocal/rapper' position.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:26 pm

wowous wrote:First thing's first, I just wanna make it clear that I never blamed Kahi for 'being a line hogger'. Because she isn't.
 cheers I really needed to hear that from an AS fan right now Very Happy 

wowous wrote:But whether or not we like it or we think she deserved it, at a point, she did have more lines than the rest.
Hmm...OK, I agree with you and personally I don't mind it. I also sure didn't mind Kahi not having that much lines in Shampoo either. Am I the only one here that doesn't care how much lines the members get as long as the songs is performed well and sounds nice?

wowous wrote:And I'm not happy she left, but I can't deny I like the current lineup even though its Raina, JungAh and the puppies. As much as I liked all the other lineups.
I'm happy that you're not happy she left. Haha is it wrong that I'm happy about someone else's misery. Schadenfreude?.... LOL, no I'm just happy that someone has similar feelings to me. I love the current members in After School, Nana is currently my bias that hasn't graduated, you guys should know how highly I think of Raina by now if you've read the Potential Next Leader tread posts and if you've seen my comments on Youtube(btw, I'm AdamFJH) you'll see that I've tried very hard to promote and defend E-young. But if we are talking about song preferences then I'll prefer the original After School line up over the current one any day.

wowous wrote:I said it already but I'll say it again - there is no possible way to equal line distribution. Or else we wouldn't even have the 'main vocal/rapper' position.
I think in practice what you say it true but not in theory. In theory it is possible to create a song where every member gets equal parts. But I think this is really hard and not very practical. I think songs should be created and lines distributed to members that are best suited for them regardless of how much lines a member gets. Basically this means that I'll be happy with an After School songs where Kahi has very little lines as long as the songs sounds good.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Sun May 11, 2014 5:26 pm

To the fans that think Kahi is selfish because she takes a majority of the lines in songs and hogs the spotlight in performances, I'm pretty sure I've done more then enough to demonstrate YOU KNOW CRAP ALL!!! you're wrong. Either that or you've actually got concrete proof but you're not letting us know about it. Which ever it is here's some more evidences to defend Kahi's integrity.

If Kahi was as selfish as fans are claiming and she had as much control over the line distribution as fans have assumed she had then for songs that Kahi herself wrote, surely she would write the songs so that Kahi takes a majority of the lines and takes the middle centre role in performances...right?


Here, watch this performance of "When I Fall". Also in case you didn't know yet "When I Fall" is one of Kahi's songs.


The times below are the amount times the members got solo lines and includes when they had solo lines with backup harmony from other members.

0:12 to 0:22 Kahi seconds 10
0:22 to 0:33 Jung Ah seconds 11
0:33 to 0:36 Raina seconds 3
0:36 to 0:38 Kahi seconds 2
0:40 to 0:43 Kahi seconds 3
0:46 to 0:48 Raina seconds 2
0:51 to 1:16 Raina seconds 25
1:16 to 1:27 Jung Ah seconds 11
1:27 to 1:37 Kahi seconds 10
1:47 to 2:05 Raina seconds 18
2:05 to 2:08 Jung Ah seconds 3
2:08 to 2:33 Raina seconds 25
2:33 to 2:37 Juyeon seconds 4
2:38 to 2:40 Jung Ah seconds 2
2:42 to 2:44 Raina seconds 2
2:44 to 2:45 Jung Ah seconds 1
2:49 to 2:51 Kahi seconds 2
2:51 to 3:00 Raina seconds 9
3:02 to 3:07 Raina seconds 5
3:11 to 3:17 Raina seconds 6

Raina had about 95 seconds of solo lines, Jung Ah about 28 seconds and Kahi had about 27 seconds.

When they promoted "When I Fall" Raina took the front centre position and got more than 3 times as much solo lines than both Kahi and Jung Ah.

To show that performance wasn't just a one off thing here's some more "When I Fall" performances.







I've been very upset with a lot of things concerning this fandom and lately its the stuff about Kahi. I know no matter what I say and how much I prove fans are wrong there'll be plenty of fans that will continue to believe their delusional lies and tbh I don't give a damn about those fans anymore. For the other fans that are misinformed and willing to listen to reason and still thinks the rubbish some fans are claiming about Kahi to be true because you feel I haven't  sufficiently address your doubts, please join the discussion.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by albeitalways on Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:45 am

Well I suppose the most solid proof anyone can get is the line distribution for all the songs After School had when Kahi was still with them. No one can't deny she dominated most of the songs in the group, up until Shampoo.

The most unfair line distribution in the entire group's history for me would be Bang! Cripes, Nana and Lizzy shared only a line. A single line. And consider the fact that Lizzy was the newest member at the time. Then again, Eyoung's admission was the same. She had only a single line, but at least she had a line for herself. Kaeun's admission was a little better than the last two members admitted before her. A little, but not much.

But I digress, the line distribution to the newer members isn't something that can be attributed to just one person alone. Management first.

There is no factual proof that Kahi or anyone else in the group had a hand in the line distribution. What most of the fandom picked up on is that Kahi definitely had a hand in the group management, which is likely considering she was the one who formed the group. So it was a de facto assumption that she also had a hand in line distribution.

IMO, yes she probably had a hand in it, enough to make a considerable change but the rest was still up to management. But we'll never know for sure, so it's pointless arguing the nitty-gritty things on whether or not she had control of it.

PlayboyzAdam wrote:Jung Ah's incompetence as a leader has already been demonstrated in performances and even mentioned by the members in Weekly Idol.

That's quite subjective. IMO, Jung-ah's performances in the group have always been consistently stable. When did the members mentioned about her lacking as a leader in Weekly Idol? Even if they did, I highly doubt they're actually serious about it. Some of the members like to throw shade back and forth with each other (Nana and Lizzy, for example), but it's just for fun and it's never intended to be serious.

I will be honest, I don't like the tone of your comment about Jungah, because it sounds like in your defense of Kahi you're dragging another member down.

Regarding the fandom, it's to be expected. In all honesty, you'd be hard-pressed to find majority of the fans in the group who equally like all the members (the old KARA for example, before Nicole and Jiyoung left). Even in SNSD, there is a lot of fandom drama between fansites of individual members. There will always be fans who will favor one member over the other and unfortunately, bring down the other members in the group just to prove how superior their favorite member is.

What you're seeing with Kahi is not just limited to her, there are plenty of people who accused Raina of the same things as well (have you visited Omona in LJ? In OC and AS posts, there's not much fans of Raina, people think she's hogging attention for herself). And even within the OC fandom, there are people who dislike the fact that Nana gets to be the center for most of OC's releases despite Raina being the leader.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PlayboyzAdam on Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:03 am

albeitalways wrote:Well I suppose the most solid proof anyone can get is the line distribution for all the songs After School had when Kahi was still with them. No one can't deny she dominated most of the songs in the group, up until Shampoo.
Basically you're saying fans have no proof. Noting that Kahi dominated most of the songs in the group does not prove her selfishness.

albeitalways wrote:There is no factual proof that Kahi or anyone else in the group had a hand in the line distribution. What most of the fandom picked up on is that Kahi definitely had a hand in the group management, which is likely considering she was the one who formed the group. So it was a de facto assumption that she also had a hand in line distribution.
I've seen the things this fandom has picked up on...honestly the ability of this fandom to reason and the standard by which this fandom considers something to be valid is rubbish.


albeitalways wrote:IMO, yes she probably had a hand in it, enough to make a considerable change but the rest was still up to management.
Hmm...OK, well how very nice of Kahi to use her influences to give Raina so much lines and spotlight in performances. Also giving Raina 95 seconds of solo lines in "When I Fall" while Kahi herself and Jung Ah only got about 27-28 seconds of solo lines is VERY generous. Also "When I Fall" was written by Kahi so isn't it great of her for practically giving the song to Raina. Obviously I don't agree with our opinion about the amount of control Kahi has but if your opinion is true then Kahi has been very generous unlike how fans are claiming.

albeitalways wrote:But we'll never know for sure, so it's pointless arguing the nitty-gritty things on whether or not she had control of it.
I think you've missed the point of why I'm asking fans to provide evidences of Kahi's selfishness. There's this concept of presume innocent until proven guilty that I've assume fans understand but I'm starting to get the idea I've been giving this fandom way too much credit. The concept is simple if you have no proof that someone is guilty then you don't treat them like they are guilty. The alternative to this concept(guilty until proven innocent) is ridiculous. Basically it means that anyone can accuse anyone of anything and h8 on them without proof they've done anything wrong. So if fans have nothing concrete against Kahi or fans are never going to know for sure then it stands to reason that fans shouldn't be hating on Kahi.  

albeitalways wrote:
PlayboyzAdam wrote:Jung Ah's incompetence as a leader has already been demonstrated in performances and even mentioned by the members in Weekly Idol.

That's quite subjective. IMO, Jung-ah's performances in the group have always been consistently stable. When did the members mentioned about her lacking as a leader in Weekly Idol? Even if they did, I highly doubt they're actually serious about it. Some of the members like to throw shade back and forth with each other (Nana and Lizzy, for example), but it's just for fun and it's never intended to be serious.
Subjective? I was going to going looking for those Flash Back performances to prove my point but I don't have time right now so I'll get back to you on that one later when I have time.

From 29:48 onwards the members mentioned about her lacking as a leader, they were serious and Jung Ah agrees with them. Honestly we don't need this interview to know Jung Ah is too passive to be correcting the members on their performances but there you have it in case you want to check.



albeitalways wrote:I will be honest, I don't like the tone of your comment about Jungah, because it sounds like in your defense of Kahi you're dragging another member down.
I honestly would like to stop talking about Jung Ah like this but you guys keep bring her up.


albeitalways wrote:Regarding the fandom, it's to be expected. In all honesty, you'd be hard-pressed to find majority of the fans in the group who equally like all the members (the old KARA for example, before Nicole and Jiyoung left). Even in SNSD, there is a lot of fandom drama between fansites of individual members. There will always be fans who will favor one member over the other and unfortunately, bring down the other members in the group just to prove how superior their favorite member is.
I know. Honestly if After School was more successful I wouldn't give a damn. It's because After School isn't that's why I am the way I am.


albeitalways wrote:What you're seeing with Kahi is not just limited to her, there are plenty of people who accused Raina of the same things as well (have you visited Omona in LJ? In OC and AS posts, there's not much fans of Raina, people think she's hogging attention for herself). And even within the OC fandom, there are people who dislike the fact that Nana gets to be the center for most of OC's releases despite Raina being the leader.
I know, I haven't visited Omona in LJ but I remember about Raina's case. Have you seen my posts on [DISCUSSION] Selfish fans damaging After School's success. That discussion is related to this discussion but that one is more about calling fans out on their selfishness. I'm not expecting fans to like all After School members and I'm totally fine with that, fans hating on another member(unless they've got a valid reason) is the problem.


Last edited by PlayboyzAdam on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

Post by PrinceX on Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:21 pm

I don't think that was Kahi's fault why the other members had so much less lines.
It is probably the composers and companies decision who gets which line to sing.
Look at Flashback for example. Even since Kahi left, suddenly Orange Caramel members had the most amount of lines.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Do fans have proof Kahi is guilty of being a selfish line hogger on a power trip?

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